Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (Full Version)

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apd1004 -> Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (12/15/2010 1:39:15 PM)

As I peruse the forums, I see a lot of screenshots of German players that have deployed some of their Pz Divs into regiments for the initial blitzkrieg in 6-41. I'm struggling to understand the benefit of this since it costs a deployed regiment an extra MP per hex, which will obviously limit the depth of penetration in the first crucial weeks of the blitzkrieg. I would rather have depth over width at this stage of the campaign.



Zovs -> RE: Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (12/15/2010 2:28:55 PM)

Encirclements. Open hole (deliberate attack), drive division (depends on available) through gap (exploit) and use breakdowns zoc to encircle.

I'll be posting in a day or two examples in the boot camp.



apd1004 -> RE: Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (12/17/2010 2:35:39 PM)

Again, I'm not seeing the benefit for breaking down German Pz & motorized divisions during the first turns of the game. I understand the concept of encirclement, pockets, etc. I've played Russian Front games for decades with cardboard and electrons, to include the original SSI War In Russia from like 1984 that I played on an Apple II+.

The manual says it costs two extra MP per enemy hex for German units smaller than divisions. That limits how far & how deep they can drive when broke down into regiments. The manual also says units smaller than a division do not take control of enemy hexes in their ZOC, only the hexes they move through. This limits the number of hexes I can take when I move through enemy territory, reducing the size of the corridors between pockets. A division cuts a path three hexes wide but a regiment will only make a one hex snail trail into enemy territory.

The only benefit I can see to breaking down a Pz/Mot division is the ability to cover more hexes with ZOC on the backside of a pocket to keep the Russian units bottled up, but I think using the Pz & Mot divisions to lock down a pocket is a waste of those precious divisions that should be striking as deep as they can for the first few turns.

My goal is Moscow as soon as I can get there. Everything else is secondary to that.



Zovs -> RE: Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (12/17/2010 2:42:54 PM)

In the new tutorial/boot camp I'll show you exactly how breaking down units into regiment benefits game play. Driving towards Moscow is one thing, running out of fuel is another, and pocketing and killing Soviets so they don't come back to haunt you is another, one has to balance all three and use all tools available.

One hint as the usefulness of breaking down is the flip side of not breaking down when used in combination with those that do and don't do it.

Since my photobucket is broken till 27th of Dec. I'll try to find some screen shots for Andy breaking and not breaking down units.



ComradeP -> RE: Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (12/17/2010 2:43:48 PM)

Using regiments to close a pocket is chancy against a human player, as it is easily dislodged from its position. Due to the movement into enemy hexes constraints, you also can't really use them to close pockets in some cases. The only time I'd split them up is for flank security of a pocket if the mobile division it belongs to doesn't have a more critical task (for example: the mobile units of AGS that unfreeze on turn 2 probably won't make it to the front, so you could use them to close down a pocket around Southwest Front forces), but there's usually enough infantry around for that and the situation is rare to begin with.

Splitting divisions up also increases the burden on HQ and, perhaps more important, makes resupplying by air a costly affair as you'll have to drop supplies on each regiment.



FredSanford3 -> RE: Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (12/17/2010 7:28:59 PM)

You can move the division as a unit for the bulk of its penetration, and break down right before you fan out to cover a larger area. Save some MP's for it though.



Montbrun -> RE: Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (12/17/2010 8:17:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz

You can move the division as a unit for the bulk of its penetration, and break down right before you fan out to cover a larger area. Save some MP's for it though.


^^^ That's what I do - to close the gap and bag as many units as possible, then, next turn, when you attack the units in the pocket, they surrender.



apd1004 -> RE: Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (12/17/2010 9:53:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad Hunter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz

You can move the division as a unit for the bulk of its penetration, and break down right before you fan out to cover a larger area. Save some MP's for it though.


^^^ That's what I do - to close the gap and bag as many units as possible, then, next turn, when you attack the units in the pocket, they surrender.


I just did this with a motorized division because I wanted to try it out. I used it to cover the backside of a pocket as a sort of rear guard for the corps it belongs to.

I also have yet to experience a fuel shortage from driving too deep, can't wait to see how that works, I'm sure I'll end up adjusting how deep I go with the pz/mot divisions when they run out of fuel.



henri51 -> RE: Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (12/17/2010 11:24:56 PM)

I don't understand: regiments don't have zones of control, so 3 regiments can cover exactly 3 hexes, whereas a single division with its zone of control can also cover 3 hexes, and it is much more powerful and difficult to dislodge.So the way I see it, unless the hexes to block are dispersed single holes, there is no advantage to breaking up a division into its components.[&:]

Henri



Rickuh -> RE: Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (12/18/2010 1:29:56 AM)

The units don't need to be adjacent. Terrain can play a role in blocking movement as well.



ComradeP -> RE: Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (12/18/2010 11:26:20 AM)

quote:

I don't understand: regiments don't have zones of control, so 3 regiments can cover exactly 3 hexes


Regiments/brigades have no ZOC for capturing neighbouring hexes when moving past them, but they do have a ZOC for limiting hostile movement like other units.



CarnageINC -> RE: Deploying German Panzer Divisions into Regiments? (12/19/2010 9:22:01 AM)

What would be nice is if Rgt/Bdg of a certain strength did have ZOC, 4 or 5 lets say.  It would give 900th Lehr and GD some real strength in penetration.



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