OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (Full Version)

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dougb -> OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (12/18/2010 4:28:40 PM)

Hi,

One of the big wishlist items that has been identified for this game is for a greater number of smaller scenarios. Now obviously the inclusion of the editor is a huge element in being able to accomplish this. However one item that is also key is historical information on the orders of battle, and more importantly, on the unit strength of those units.

The greater detail of units (numbers of squads, tanks etc. etc.) makes this task much more difficult than if we were simply dealing with unit attack and defense factors. I can get access to pretty good Ob's through various sources, but does anyone connected with the game have good sources for unit strengths, compositions that they would be willing to share? In particular I was thinking of tackling Operation Star first as I have Glant'z Zhukov's Greatest Defeat.

I also have a mind to trying my hand at creating some of the scenarios that were included in the game Russian German War by Schwerpunkt as the game had a terrific number of scenarios.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Best wishes,

Doug



Great_Ajax -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (12/18/2010 5:25:30 PM)

Here are some that I regularly use in my own scenario creation. I am working on a Ukraine 43-44 scenario right now and I have open the following:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/inhaltsverzeichnis1.htm (Best German unit site that I have found)

http://victory.mil.ru/war/oob/bs_1944.1.10.html (Best Soviet OOB site - has OOBs for every 3 months of the conflict)

http://www.ordersofbattle.darkscape.net/site/sturmvogel/Panzerkeil.html (German support units)


http://www.translate.ru/site_Translation.aspx?direction=re&from=adv&template=General&autotranslate=on&transliterate=on&flw=1&showvariants=&viewModeSelected=result&sourceURL=http://allaces.ru/cgi-bin/s2.cgi/sssr/struct/main.dat (Soviet Air)

http://www.ww2.dk/ (Best Luftwaffe Site)

http://www.generals.dk/ (WW2 Generals)

http://www.gutenberg-e.org/esk01/frames/feskmap.html (OKH Situation Maps)

http://www.cgsc.edu/CARL/nafziger/ (Nafziger's OOB collection from the US Army General Staff College)

Trey






quote:

ORIGINAL: dougb

Hi,

One of the big wishlist items that has been identified for this game is for a greater number of smaller scenarios. Now obviously the inclusion of the editor is a huge element in being able to accomplish this. However one item that is also key is historical information on the orders of battle, and more importantly, on the unit strength of those units.

The greater detail of units (numbers of squads, tanks etc. etc.) makes this task much more difficult than if we were simply dealing with unit attack and defense factors. I can get access to pretty good Ob's through various sources, but does anyone connected with the game have good sources for unit strengths, compositions that they would be willing to share? In particular I was thinking of tackling Operation Star first as I have Glant'z Zhukov's Greatest Defeat.

I also have a mind to trying my hand at creating some of the scenarios that were included in the game Russian German War by Schwerpunkt as the game had a terrific number of scenarios.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Best wishes,

Doug




dougb -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (12/18/2010 5:45:24 PM)

Thanks very much for those links! I'll have a go at Operation Star and see what I can come up with.

Best wishes,

Doug



MechFO -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (12/19/2010 1:43:29 PM)

In addition to what has been mentioned:


General OOB info for 41:
http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/__ge_index.htm


Romanian information:
http://www.worldwar2.ro/

Wehrmacht:
http://www.wehrmachtdivisionen.de/ (some stuff one has to pay for)
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/ (generic but still interesting if you are starting out)
http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/ (site is still being built, but it looks like it will be great some day)
with Google books look for:"Panzer Divisions: The Eastern Front 1941-43" (Some good information can be got with the Preview function, even worth buying IMO if you are really interested in the subject material)
http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewforum.php?f=36&sid=befe4083caf87ffc58d9f58794872e14 (a forum with excellent info)

Finland:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/MAIN.html

EDIT: In addition this is an interesting place to compare some battalion level TOE's:

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/General/site_map.htm



dougb -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (12/19/2010 2:54:05 PM)

Thanks again very much for the references. Looking at the sources it appears that much of the unit strengths of a scenario are not going to be able to be tied down too accurately unless I can somehow get access to a unit strength report. The links and other sources I have provide some good information on the regimental and other compositions subunit compositions for some divisions - what is often absent is bayonet strengths of the division. I know that on sites like Feldgrau.net these can sometimes be obtained but there will undoubtedly be a lot of guess work.

Guess this shows why so much is owed to the scenario designers and researchers of this game for their great work![:)]

Best wishes,

Doug



MechFO -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (12/19/2010 3:11:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dougb

Thanks again very much for the references. Looking at the sources it appears that much of the unit strengths of a scenario are not going to be able to be tied down too accurately unless I can somehow get access to a unit strength report. The links and other sources I have provide some good information on the regimental and other compositions subunit compositions for some divisions - what is often absent is bayonet strengths of the division. I know that on sites like Feldgrau.net these can sometimes be obtained but there will undoubtedly be a lot of guess work.

Guess this shows why so much is owed to the scenario designers and researchers of this game for their great work![:)]

Best wishes,

Doug


The nature of the beast;).

I also think that aside from some Axis Minor countries where info is by nature scarce, and discussions about OOB's/Morale/Experience etc. are programmed, the average quality is extremely high.

If you are looking for detailed strength reports at a specific time then for Pz/PzGren from 43-45 there is:

http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic.php?t=6952

In general that forum will probably be your best bet for that kind of Wehrmacht info.





Naughteous Maximus -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (12/21/2010 10:28:26 AM)

Have you tried this site:

http://www.feldgrau.com/

I find it has some very useful stuff.



dougb -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (12/22/2010 1:08:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Naughteous Maximus

Have you tried this site:

http://www.feldgrau.com/

I find it has some very useful stuff.


Thanks yes I've gone to that site. Looks like a good stop as it appears that there are people in the forums that have some pretty amazing collections of primary source documents.

Best wishes,

Doug



Veldmaarschalk -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (12/22/2010 7:55:26 PM)

This is a usefull site for the 1943 scenario, especially since it has a lot of info about the Soviet troops which are rare in English language

http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/vy75/ob.htm



Jabba -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (12/22/2010 11:18:17 PM)

quote:

http://victory.mil.ru/war/oob/bs_1944.1.10.html (Best Soviet OOB site - has OOBs for every 3 months of the conflict)


Actually there is more detailed information available than this. Soviet Orders of Battle are available for every month of the war. They can be found (for example) at the following site.

http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1941.pdf
http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1942.pdf
http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1943.pdf
http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1944.pdf
http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1945.pdf



Great_Ajax -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (12/23/2010 3:04:07 AM)

Ah, very cool. Thanks for sharing that!

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jabba

quote:

http://victory.mil.ru/war/oob/bs_1944.1.10.html (Best Soviet OOB site - has OOBs for every 3 months of the conflict)


Actually there is more detailed information available than this. Soviet Orders of Battle are available for every month of the war. They can be found (for example) at the following site.

http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1941.pdf
http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1942.pdf
http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1943.pdf
http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1944.pdf
http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1945.pdf




bcgames -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (1/2/2011 8:50:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jabba

quote:

http://victory.mil.ru/war/oob/bs_1944.1.10.html (Best Soviet OOB site - has OOBs for every 3 months of the conflict)


Actually there is more detailed information available than this. Soviet Orders of Battle are available for every month of the war. They can be found (for example) at the following site.

http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1941.pdf
http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1942.pdf
http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1943.pdf
http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1944.pdf
http://www.rkka.es/Estructura/asignacion_terrestre/BoevojSostavSA1945.pdf

quote:

http://www.feldgrau.com/



RedLancer -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (1/3/2011 6:55:12 PM)

Excellent detail on German AFVs

http://www.scribd.com/doc/32582111/Encyclopedia-of-German-Tanks-of-World-War-Two



dougb -> RE: OB and Detailed Unit Strength Sources for Scenarios (1/3/2011 7:13:51 PM)

Zetterling and Frankson's book 'Korsun Pocket: The Encirclement and Breakout of a German Army in the East, 1944' has a wealth of good data on German unit strength and dispositions during the battle and subsequent breakout from the Korsun Pocket.

For Kursk I've found that Zitadelle: the German Offensive Against the Kursk Salient 4-17 July 1943 also provides a wealth of information particularly on the Panzer and panzer grenadier divisions involved in the battle.

Best wishes,

Doug



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