Expansion is great, but why...

Expansion is great, but why... (Full Version)

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Litjan -> Expansion is great, but why... (12/19/2010 8:07:01 PM)
...do we STILL not have the little dots seperating the huge numbers? I mean write 1.000.000 instead of 1000000. This can really be not that hard and EVERYONE is hating it? Or did we just get used to ticking of digits with the finger trying to see if its 20 million or 2 million? While we talk about tech-trading. I can愒 believe the current "value" of the tech is not listed in the list, so I have to add it to the bargaining-window, just to see how much it is worth to the other side? Should be an easy "fix", right? Same goes for vector-lines showing the destinations of ships (if known). I click on a ship of mine, only to read that it is going to XYZ-moon (which doesn愒 even tell me the system). Enemy fleets have those vectors, why can愒 the currently selected ship have one? Pretty please? I know these should maybe go to the wish-list, but I am afraid they will get buried there underneath all the "I want my lasers to look a little frizzy, but not too much, maybe with a slight green glow as they launch, fading to a more..."-threads. You get the picture [:D] Immensely enjoying the expansion, of course! Jan

Igard -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/19/2010 8:14:50 PM)
I agree completely. They've probably already been mentioned on the wishlist several times I should think. I was really surprised to see there's no comma seperator on the diplomacy screen numbers.

Haree78 -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/19/2010 8:43:17 PM)
Oh god yes please, I honestly spend so many minutes of a game counting the numbers of a value when trading tech, it's a bit silly [:D]

kenata -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/19/2010 9:50:33 PM)
I agree as well though, I would prefer commas to dots. It might be an american v international thing, but 1,000,000 just looks better than 1.000.000 especially when there is always the possibility of decimals.

Webbco -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/19/2010 9:51:39 PM)
I'm from the UK and I've never seen dots used, always commas.

Litjan -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/19/2010 9:55:21 PM)
Well, as far as I am concerned they can separate those groups with funny little elves with pointy hats, just separate them!惽;)]

Solus -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/19/2010 10:08:36 PM)
It should be a very easy fix. Just about every programming language has string formatting functions which can automatically put commas in (or dots, or whatever the relevant localisation specifies).

elliotg -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/19/2010 11:00:18 PM)
Ok, we'll add this in the upcoming ROTS update [:)] But to help us out, could someone please make a list of the places where this matters the most, preferably ordered from most important to least? Just post the list in this thread. Then we can work through the list and add the separators. Thanks Elliot

Shark7 -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/19/2010 11:15:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: elliotg Ok, we'll add this in the upcoming ROTS update [:)] But to help us out, could someone please make a list of the places where this matters the most, preferably ordered from most important to least? Just post the list in this thread. Then we can work through the list and add the separators. Thanks Elliot Honestly, the only place it is important for me is the diplomacy screens so I can tell if I'm giving the other guy 1,000 or 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000 at a glance. It really is amazing how hard it is to tell without the separators. All those zeros just seem to run together. [&:]

Haree78 -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/19/2010 11:46:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: elliotg Ok, we'll add this in the upcoming ROTS update [:)] But to help us out, could someone please make a list of the places where this matters the most, preferably ordered from most important to least? Just post the list in this thread. Then we can work through the list and add the separators. Thanks Elliot Most important: Trade Negotiation screen Medium importance: Build Order screen Minor importance: Diplomacy screen Empire Summary Designs (Cost) Empire comparison Commas is what I've seen and is used in some places in the game ;)

frugaldude -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/19/2010 11:55:25 PM)
I think if you would use a monospaced font for numerals most of the issues of reading numbers would evaporate. Also a space after a number would make numbers more readable (121 M rather than 121M). I can't count the number of times I misread a number when I could not recognize the numeral 1 within a number, especially when it is at the end of the number and proceeding a letter.

Aures -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 1:13:28 AM)
Good stuff, I believe comma separators are more or less the standard in english. It is is only in programs written originally in other langauges (such as German) where I have seen full stops used as separators and commas used as decimal points. Besides that, DW and ROTS already use full stops as decimal points. Vanilla should definitely follow the standard english convention, but if the game is going to made moddable enough for community made translations the ability to globally set the separator/decimal point would be welcome. Rather than hard coding a "," char to be added into the strings it should use a char variable to make the ability to change it easier to implement.

Shark7 -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 2:32:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aures Good stuff, I believe comma separators are more or less the standard in english. It is is only in programs written originally in other langauges (such as German) where I have seen full stops used as separators and commas used as decimal points. Besides that, DW and ROTS already use full stops as decimal points. Vanilla should definitely follow the standard english convention, but if the game is going to made moddable enough for community made translations the ability to globally set the separator/decimal point would be welcome. Rather than hard coding a "," char to be added into the strings it should use a char variable to make the ability to change it easier to implement. That's part of the problem of having a game that appeals to a global player-base. What is a separator to one is a decimal to another, etc.

Solus -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 4:40:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shark7 That's part of the problem of having a game that appeals to a global player-base. What is a separator to one is a decimal to another, etc. That's where localisation comes in. You never hard code something like that, you design your code so that all you have to do is specify the language/locale (e.g. in a configuration file), and the code handles outputting the relevant information in the right format. Of course you have to prepare for that in advance - if you don't expect to reach a global audience, you can be forgiven for not foreseeing the need for localisation.

Andrew Brown -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 6:47:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Solus That's where localisation comes in. You never hard code something like that, you design your code so that all you have to do is specify the language/locale (e.g. in a configuration file) I agree it should not be hard coded. The best thing to do would be to read the localisation setting (for the thousands separator) from the operating system and use that. Keeps everyone happy.

thiosk -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 9:29:54 AM)
commas! NO DOTS

Nibelung44 -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 10:28:44 AM)
Something, not nothing! [:D] Can we get vectors for our ships too?

WoodMan -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 10:41:41 AM)
To be honest I live in the UK and I've never seen a game that used dots instead of commas to seperate portions or large numbers and I've neevr seen commas used as decimal points in any game. That just doesn't make sense, if the game you are playing is in English, so should the numbers be.

sbach2o -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 11:00:59 AM)
Commas vs. dots... is a thing of local customs. Anglo-saxons use commas as a thousands-separator and some others (Germans, French(?)) use dots. The decimal separators are reversed. This is a source of endless confusion and sometimes causes bugs in software when these numbers need to be parsed from text. So, elliot, be careful about I18N, please ;). It has caused some grief already on the initial release of DW.

Litjan -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 11:13:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nibelung44 Something, not nothing!惽:D] Can we get vectors for our ships too? Yes, can we? Pretty please, with sugar on top?

Wenla -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 2:00:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thiosk commas! NO DOTS Dots! NO COMMAS

Fideach -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 2:42:49 PM)
Vectors would be more important to me! Of course, I can tell at a glance how much a number is with out the separators.

Zakhal -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 3:36:08 PM)
Check from windows registry whether to use comma or dots. If thats too much then second best choice is to use dots.

Shark7 -> RE: Expansion is great, but why... (12/20/2010 4:16:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wenla quote: ORIGINAL: thiosk commas! NO DOTS Dots! NO COMMAS Asterisks! NO Dots! NO Commas! [:D]

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