RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (Full Version)

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Vasquez -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/28/2010 12:04:37 PM)

Currently only the Black Prophecy Beta. The NDA was lifted some days ago. Ingame gameplay movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DS40cxVDNM&feature=related

Random Trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcBTRJK_2y8&feature=related



Lützow -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/28/2010 1:53:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

SWG was one of the best MMO's till they killed it with the NGE. They destroyed hours upon hours of game time played by doing so because players lost everything that they had accomplished because of the NGE. See you once could be a conglomeration of character classes, you could be a rifleman, artisian, creature handling, medic, entertainer all in one character. Then the NGE dumped all that and you had to pick ONE character class to play and you lost all the rest. That pissed a bunch of players off and we left.



Talking from a hardcore gamers perspective, SWG was doomed from the get-go. We expected an EverQuest in Space and what we got was a game inferior to Ultima Online. Sure, there were a plethora of skills to choose from, but only a single build which made sense. The dev's were downright incapable, created girl's fluff instead of new content, continously nerfed classes and within a few months the economy got ruined by hyperinflation. I rolled a bh/ch right at release and quit after the free playtime, since there was nothing to do anymore.

That said, I was an avid MMOG player before this genre hit the mainstream. Started with UO, spent years in EQ, peeked into WoW and played EvE for quite some time. However, can't be bothered anymore with modern MMOG's.



Scott_WAR -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/28/2010 7:17:13 PM)

Lutz,...you bring up a trend that I HATE. As 'genres' get popular,...they always slowly get dumbed down until they are boring and dont resemble at all what made them popular to begin with. Thankfully wargaming has stayed somewhat immune to this since it remains a 'niche' market.



Lützow -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/28/2010 9:40:30 PM)

I have to agree. Wargames and certain flight sims are the last resort for hardcore players. Sadly, the heyday of crpg's is over. I used to love this genre *sigh*.



Anthropoid -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/28/2010 11:28:04 PM)

I cannot say that I disagree with you guys about the trend toward "dumbing down." Certainly I'm quite disenchanted with what has happened to the Civ series.

But how would you define "hardcore" and what is it that really differentiates the dumbed down from the 'smarted up' games?

Not trying to be argumentative, just thinking about that talk I'm giving in February on computer gaming as 'simulation.'



ilovestrategy -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/28/2010 11:36:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow


quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

SWG was one of the best MMO's till they killed it with the NGE. They destroyed hours upon hours of game time played by doing so because players lost everything that they had accomplished because of the NGE. See you once could be a conglomeration of character classes, you could be a rifleman, artisian, creature handling, medic, entertainer all in one character. Then the NGE dumped all that and you had to pick ONE character class to play and you lost all the rest. That pissed a bunch of players off and we left.



Talking from a hardcore gamers perspective, SWG was doomed from the get-go. We expected an EverQuest in Space and what we got was a game inferior to Ultima Online. Sure, there were a plethora of skills to choose from, but only a single build which made sense. The dev's were downright incapable, created girl's fluff instead of new content, continously nerfed classes and within a few months the economy got ruined by hyperinflation. I rolled a bh/ch right at release and quit after the free playtime, since there was nothing to do anymore.

That said, I was an avid MMOG player before this genre hit the mainstream. Started with UO, spent years in EQ, peeked into WoW and played EvE for quite some time. However, can't be bothered anymore with modern MMOG's.



It was never a hardcore gamer's game. Never was. There was nothing like raiding and wasn't meant to be. It was an open sand box game and in that it excelled. It was also a social game. I went to parties in people space yachts, had guild functions in cantinas while players played music and things like that. I never ran out of things to do. And that was not even including all the exploring. Or going out on hunting expeditions with the guild and kicking back in a camp made by my master ranger. Sitting on a beach on Naboo with friends and watching the sun set. It was the best MMO that I had ever played. I cannot think of one instance that I was bored.

I played for a year and a half before the New Generation Experience changed the game. It turned into a leveling grind after that.

Ultima Online was good too. I was there for 3 1/2 years before leaving that for Star Wars Galaxies. UO was also a sand box game. Only bad thing with UO was all the griefers and the time sink required to do anything.

I played EQ for 2 weeks on a free trial period. Just could not get into it. Not my thing.

I have now been playing Lord of the Rings Online for almost 4 years now and I love it even more than before. Turbine really pays attention to detail on following the books. For a Tolkien freak like me it's paradise. Not for raiders and Pvpers though. Never was intended to be.

With computer games one man's hatred is another man's love.



ilovestrategy -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/28/2010 11:51:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

I cannot say that I disagree with you guys about the trend toward "dumbing down." Certainly I'm quite disenchanted with what has happened to the Civ series.

But how would you define "hardcore" and what is it that really differentiates the dumbed down from the 'smarted up' games?

Not trying to be argumentative, just thinking about that talk I'm giving in February on computer gaming as 'simulation.'



Well, a lot of it is the interface. I've been playing PC games since 1990 and IMHO interfaces are a lot better than before. I think what some people classify as hardcore is in fact annoying. For example Warcraft Orcs and Humans you could only group 4 units at a time and you could only build one keep to bring all your gold to, with Warcraft II, you could group up to 9 units and build multiple keeps so you could have one closer to a gold mine. It made for much for streamlined play. But players could also refer to it as dumbing down.

Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion is another example. After playing with that game I could never play Elder Scrolls III Morrowind because I could not got back to a clunky interface again.

Another thing is tutorials. More strategy games have in game tutorials. That was a godsend for me in Distant Worlds. I ordered War Plan Pacific from Shrapnel and I am SOOOOOO happy I bought the disc version with the book instead of the download. The game has no tutorial and I would have been lost.

Times are changing. A game bought as a download with no sort in ingame instructions or tutorial?

I don't think games are getting dumbed down. I think they are becoming easier to learn. I'm thinking about buying Storm over the Pacific as a download but what if it doesn't have a tutorial? If it doesn't that is not hardcore. It's annoying.



ilovestrategy -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/28/2010 11:55:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

I cannot say that I disagree with you guys about the trend toward "dumbing down." Certainly I'm quite disenchanted with what has happened to the Civ series.

But how would you define "hardcore" and what is it that really differentiates the dumbed down from the 'smarted up' games?

Not trying to be argumentative, just thinking about that talk I'm giving in February on computer gaming as 'simulation.'



First of all, I want to apologize for making 3 posts one after another. If anyone is upset I apologize. Especially to Erik!

I played Civ I up to IV. Not yet V. Is Civ V made simpler? I'm just curious.



Sheytan -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 12:14:02 AM)

Precisely what I was looking for in a game. Content CONTENT CONTENT. Too bad I never had a chance to play SWG in its glory days.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow


quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

SWG was one of the best MMO's till they killed it with the NGE. They destroyed hours upon hours of game time played by doing so because players lost everything that they had accomplished because of the NGE. See you once could be a conglomeration of character classes, you could be a rifleman, artisian, creature handling, medic, entertainer all in one character. Then the NGE dumped all that and you had to pick ONE character class to play and you lost all the rest. That pissed a bunch of players off and we left.



Talking from a hardcore gamers perspective, SWG was doomed from the get-go. We expected an EverQuest in Space and what we got was a game inferior to Ultima Online. Sure, there were a plethora of skills to choose from, but only a single build which made sense. The dev's were downright incapable, created girl's fluff instead of new content, continously nerfed classes and within a few months the economy got ruined by hyperinflation. I rolled a bh/ch right at release and quit after the free playtime, since there was nothing to do anymore.

That said, I was an avid MMOG player before this genre hit the mainstream. Started with UO, spent years in EQ, peeked into WoW and played EvE for quite some time. However, can't be bothered anymore with modern MMOG's.



It was never a hardcore gamer's game. Never was. There was nothing like raiding and wasn't meant to be. It was an open sand box game and in that it excelled. It was also a social game. I went to parties in people space yachts, had guild functions in cantinas while players played music and things like that. I never ran out of things to do. And that was not even including all the exploring. Or going out on hunting expeditions with the guild and kicking back in a camp made by my master ranger. Sitting on a beach on Naboo with friends and watching the sun set. It was the best MMO that I had ever played. I cannot think of one instance that I was bored.

I played for a year and a half before the New Generation Experience changed the game. It turned into a leveling grind after that.

Ultima Online was good too. I was there for 3 1/2 years before leaving that for Star Wars Galaxies. UO was also a sand box game. Only bad thing with UO was all the griefers and the time sink required to do anything.

I played EQ for 2 weeks on a free trial period. Just could not get into it. Not my thing.

I have now been playing Lord of the Rings Online for almost 4 years now and I love it even more than before. Turbine really pays attention to detail on following the books. For a Tolkien freak like me it's paradise. Not for raiders and Pvpers though. Never was intended to be.

With computer games one man's hatred is another man's love.




parusski -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 6:41:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sheytan

Curious, I gave up on DAOC, WOW, and finally Warhammer. Is there anything good you folks are playing currently? I plan on buying a Alienware rig in the next month or two and need some MMO suggestions.

Merry Christmas!


In the few minutes I break my WitE addiction I still return to WOW and Warhammer, great games. MMO's? Try Vindictus, City of Heroes going Rogue or LOTRO. I, like ilovestrategy, enjoy the pace of LOTRO.

I have been buying Alienware rigs since the company started many years ago, it's worth the investment. BUT, my son just had Falcon NW build a killer rig-intel core i7 extreme 980x 3.33gh processor, 12 gig ram, 2 GE FORCE GTX80 video cards, 2TB hard drive, 240GB SSD, and other goodies. YES he dropped $6800 on it, but I think Falcon is something to look into. I just looked at some rigs a moment ago and you can bet one that beats Alienware for about the same amount of green. I am impressed. Sorry for the swerve, but I think Falcon may have finally overtaken ALienware as king of gaming rigs. Check them out.




Sheytan -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 7:13:31 AM)

OUCH! 6800? I priced a Alienware rig I wanted out at 5800 and change. That figure is making me hesitant as it is.

Do you have a link to this other vendor?

As a aside I played LOTRO for about six months. As I mentioned in posts prior to this it was a tailor made IP for RVR/PVP/ CONTENT. I played from open on, and really felt shortchanged. As a example I visited Lorien? It didnt ring bells for me, yet in the post NGE Starwars I visited Jabba the Huts haunt and I actually spent time dancing there with the few people I bumped into. IT had atmosphere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sheytan

Curious, I gave up on DAOC, WOW, and finally Warhammer. Is there anything good you folks are playing currently? I plan on buying a Alienware rig in the next month or two and need some MMO suggestions.

Merry Christmas!


In the few minutes I break my WitE addiction I still return to WOW and Warhammer, great games. MMO's? Try Vindictus, City of Heroes going Rogue or LOTRO. I, like ilovestrategy, enjoy the pace of LOTRO.

I have been buying Alienware rigs since the company started many years ago, it's worth the investment. BUT, my son just had Falcon NW build a killer rig-intel core i7 extreme 980x 3.33gh processor, 12 gig ram, 2 GE FORCE GTX80 video cards, 2TB hard drive, 240GB SSD, and other goodies. YES he dropped $6800 on it, but I think Falcon is something to look into. I just looked at some rigs a moment ago and you can bet one that beats Alienware for about the same amount of green. I am impressed. Sorry for the swerve, but I think Falcon may have finally overtaken ALienware as king of gaming rigs. Check them out.






Lützow -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 1:55:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

But how would you define "hardcore" and what is it that really differentiates the dumbed down from the 'smarted up' games?



Hardcore is a feeling of happyness which comes from overcoming challenges. In regard to video games and referring to Raph Koster's 'theory of fun' it means to figure out how something works. Once one mastered the learning curve and is able to beat a game, it becomes boring.

However, in today's titles one recognizes the patterns in no time and there is also no sense of accomplishment in beating something, a kid could do as well. Those games took away what gaming made fun.



Anthropoid -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 5:21:26 PM)

@ Ilovestrategy: yeah, I'm pretty sure the game is considered "dumbed down" by many. I won't buy it cause it requires Steam. But based on the copious griping and lampooning I've seen of the game over at CivFanatics, I don't think I'd be inclined to buy it anyway.

Check this out

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=405229

That is just the tip of a very VERY big iceberg of major indignation by Civ fans about many seem to regard as the travesty that is Civ 5.



ilovestrategy -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 8:19:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

@ Ilovestrategy: yeah, I'm pretty sure the game is considered "dumbed down" by many. I won't buy it cause it requires Steam. But based on the copious griping and lampooning I've seen of the game over at CivFanatics, I don't think I'd be inclined to buy it anyway.

Check this out

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=405229

That is just the tip of a very VERY big iceberg of major indignation by Civ fans about many seem to regard as the travesty that is Civ 5.



I can't really take that as gospel. It's just like the Oblivion forums when the game first came out and forum members were taking about boycotting Bethesda because the game catered to a different fanbase than their previous game, Morrowind. I'm seeing the same thing here. Oblivion turned out to be my favorite game of the entire series.



Lützow -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 9:06:00 PM)

I'm in the boat of those who disliked Oblivion. Bethesda totally diminished the meaning of character development, by raising environment according to players level. So you could beat the game at level 1 already. On the other hand your toon never grew in strenght, regardless how many quests he solved. Morrowind wasn't complex either, but one could kill more time there, as it lacked of a fast travel system.



diablo1 -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 10:04:43 PM)

quote:

But how would you define "hardcore" and what is it that really differentiates the dumbed down from the 'smarted up' games?


Ok I'll give you an example with EQ. When EQ first came out if you died you lost experience and could actually lose a level too. Certain level groups like 30 to 34 you had to gain twice as much experience (this was when the cap level was 50. I also believe from 48-52 you had another level group that took twice as much experience. Those of us who started out with EQ had to go through these grueling but prestigous levels to make it to 50. Newcomers a couple of years later got to stream through them because the level cap was raised to 60 and then only a couple of levels between 50-60 were like that, once the level cap went to 75 they even removed that.

Another thing they did was stop letting you lose a level if you lost too much experience and thus you could never lose more experience than zero of a certain level. This also after many of us spent years going through the "fear" of losing a level or many levels if you got caught in a bad spot and continued to die over and over (this usually happened in PVP spawn point camping).

Then finally the straw that broke the camels back they created a sort of a graveyard where your body went if you died. No longer was the "FEAR" there of losing ALL YOUR STUFF if you died in a really hard area and there weren't others there to help you get it out within 7 days. FEAR was one of the most fun parts of EQ. It made you play well and not like some idiot. It also made others play well (that really wanted to grief) or they wouldn't get help getting their body or stuff back. It was really a nice community for PVE back then. PVP well that's another story but usually those that got spawn point camped were azzzholes and deserved to get deleveled back to level 1. heheee

Finally SOE decided to create POP short for PLANES OF POWER which had teleporters to just about every main place in EQ. Well this place killed players who made income by porting people around the world as druids and wizards (two classes that got teleports to the main places around the world). People stopped wanting rides by 90%. I used to get 2-5 plat per ride and got lots of tips too just porting players around the world. With POP they got better teleports closer to cities than the Druid or Wizards got. So, people stopped using us for travel except to a few choice places where POP didn't port you to. POP was mainly to port to city areas but had a few ports to outlying adventure areas.

So this is the difference in what was "hardcore" play and turned it into a romper room carebear game. I quit about this time and started to play Star Wars Galaxies and you've heard what they did to it later on as well. I tried also DAOC but just couldn't get into that world or the graphics. Then EQ2 but my puter and graphics card weren't up to the power required to play it. I've since gone back and am playing the freeplay EQ2 game but it's just not as fun as EQ used to be. So, Guild Wars which has no monthly fee is the one I play most now. It's not that great, has no loot to adventure for after you get a max weapon, armor piece and offhand piece and is really another romper room carebear game now.

Too many of these games are carebear now and not enough FEAR to get players to play WELL and to play NICELY. When you have nothing to fear by the community or the game you can just become an azzz as so many have in most of these mmo worlds now. I will admit though EQ had one of the best moderated game worlds as they allowed players to become guides and monitors but eventually the riffraff got into that world and people were getting banned who hadn't really done anything bad.



diablo1 -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 10:09:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

I'm in the boat of those who disliked Oblivion. Bethesda totally diminished the meaning of character development, by raising environment according to players level. So you could beat the game at level 1 already. On the other hand your toon never grew in strenght, regardless how many quests he solved. Morrowind wasn't complex either, but one could kill more time there, as it lacked of a fast travel system.


There are mods out that eliminated that everything levels with you feature. In fact there are a couple of them. Makes the game a whole lot better and you won't fun into any level 1 dragons.



Arctic Blast -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 10:26:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

@ Ilovestrategy: yeah, I'm pretty sure the game is considered "dumbed down" by many. I won't buy it cause it requires Steam. But based on the copious griping and lampooning I've seen of the game over at CivFanatics, I don't think I'd be inclined to buy it anyway.

Check this out

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=405229

That is just the tip of a very VERY big iceberg of major indignation by Civ fans about many seem to regard as the travesty that is Civ 5.



I can't really take that as gospel. It's just like the Oblivion forums when the game first came out and forum members were taking about boycotting Bethesda because the game catered to a different fanbase than their previous game, Morrowind. I'm seeing the same thing here. Oblivion turned out to be my favorite game of the entire series.


Some aspects of Civ V were streamlined, but in a good way (at least in my opinion). And does anyone really miss things like Religion, which were never fully realized in the game to begin with?

Finally, some aspects have had depth added. You can only produce so many units with each mineral find, so no more spamming out knights for example...you might have access to enough iron and horses to make 3. You HAVE to build a more varied army now.



diablo1 -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 10:37:38 PM)

quote:

And does anyone really miss things like Religion


Yes I do because it helped make alliances and friendships and kept me out of wars for a long time.



diablo1 -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 10:39:11 PM)

quote:

Finally, some aspects have had depth added. You can only produce so many units with each mineral find, so no more spamming out knights for example...you might have access to enough iron and horses to make 3.


And this sucked the most about Civ V. We're already used to a certain playstyle of the series. The last thing I want to be is restricted from what I already know and how I want to play. This was the worst implementation of the entire game.



Lützow -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 10:42:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

There are mods out that eliminated that everything levels with you feature. In fact there are a couple of them. Makes the game a whole lot better and you won't fun into any level 1 dragons.


Guess these mods came too late for me. *sigh*

However, I agree with you about EQ. To understand what hardcore means, one had to accomplish a PoF break-in back in '99. [:D]



NefariousKoel -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 10:59:32 PM)

I'm back to Star Trek Online.  

It's not a tough decision as I got a lifetime sub before release so why not.   It seems to be slowly improving but I'll hold praise of progress until after I've seen the rehash of the terrible ground combat coming in the next big update.



diablo1 -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 11:03:29 PM)

quote:

one had to accomplish a PoF break-in back in '99.


Oh god yesssssss those were the days my friend those were the days.



ilovestrategy -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 11:45:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow


quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

There are mods out that eliminated that everything levels with you feature. In fact there are a couple of them. Makes the game a whole lot better and you won't fun into any level 1 dragons.


Guess these mods came too late for me. *sigh*

However, I agree with you about EQ. To understand what hardcore means, one had to accomplish a PoF break-in back in '99. [:D]



Dying in Ultima Online and having 5 minutes to get back to your body before people could loot it. And this was on dial up. Ugh. I loved the penalty for dying in SWG. Just go to a cantina and get your morale back and have a doc erase the black mark off of your stamina?(I havent played in a while, not sure if that was the attribute with the black bar after death. Penalty wasn't too harsh or too light.

I was there in the old hardcore days. Don't miss them at all. Now I'm older and I play to RELAX. Not to play in fear. I just log on, do some quests, do some crafting, talk to friends and log off to get ready for work the next day. White knuckle playing doesn't work for me. I'm one of those carebears that people despise.

That's another reason why I love Gary Grigby's World at War. Fits right in my alley. Easy mode too.



diablo1 -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/29/2010 11:48:14 PM)

quote:

I'm one of those carebears that people despise.


I don't dispise them but there are too many mmo's out there now you'd think they could leave one alone for the hardcore? Typically the one that I play of course. [:)]



Lützow -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/30/2010 12:08:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy


Dying in Ultima Online and having 5 minutes to get back to your body before people could loot it. And this was on dial up. Ugh.


I remember corpse decay in UO was on a brief timer, but equipment didn't mean much there and was easy to obtain. Similar as in SWG or EvE. However, in EQ gear was the result of long camps and losing it had been equivalent to quit the game.



ilovestrategy -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/30/2010 12:40:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

I'm one of those carebears that people despise.


I don't dispise them but there are too many mmo's out there now you'd think they could leave one alone for the hardcore? Typically the one that I play of course. [:)]


I agree with you 100%. I honestly do see your point. There should be one for the hardcore. That's like me being sad that there are no more Ultima games like 6,7, and Serpent's Isle. I think the market just isn't there.



blastpop -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/30/2010 1:12:46 AM)

How does Runescape compare with some of the other online games? It starts free, but is it any good?



ilovestrategy -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/30/2010 1:14:25 AM)

I haven't played Runescape in so many years I'm not qualified to answer that question. Sorry! [&o]



Anthropoid -> RE: SO! What MMO's are you all playing? (12/30/2010 3:19:16 AM)

It is a very interesting thread, and thanks Diablo for the long reply.

As a semi-outsider (I'm a gamer, but I think not nearly as serious as you true gamers) I'm reaching the conclusion based on the various forums I've interacted in over the years, that "hardcore" really means: la masochistic liking of complexity/difficulty?

I recognize this "fear" allure very well. I remember one of the first PC games I ever really got into, System Shock 2. Turn the lights down and play that game with headphones alone, and it would have you jumping out of your seat. By todays standards it proably seems lame, but it was true for that game back then anyway.

Fallout3 sort've accomplishe that too, but it still didn't feel as spooky. Oblivion doesn't feel the least bit spooky, even when you're in an Ayleid ruin.

So does it really just boil down to games becoming less challenging and more forgiving?



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