Merging air squadrons into groups? (Full Version)

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Spectex -> Merging air squadrons into groups? (12/22/2010 11:05:28 AM)

Any way to combine all those (allied) 12-plane squadrons into WITP-style air groups? I could do without all the extra clicks and clutter on the air screens. Can't even imagine what it'll be like in the late war...



castor troy -> RE: Merging air squadrons into groups? (12/22/2010 11:40:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spectex

Any way to combine all those (allied) 12-plane squadrons into WITP-style air groups? I could do without all the extra clicks and clutter on the air screens. Can't even imagine what it'll be like in the late war...



The clicking is one thing, the airfield admin stacking another...



crsutton -> RE: Merging air squadrons into groups? (12/22/2010 4:47:27 PM)

I would like to see it. I can get my squadrons to coordinate much so it would be nice to send them out as a group. Japan actually gets the edge here because they have a few very large squadrons and they can usually put up bigger sweeps. Perhaps limit it to size 8 or larger airfields. I would really like to combine bombers. It would be very nice to see all of them attack at once on occasion..[8|]



Sredni -> RE: Merging air squadrons into groups? (12/22/2010 9:43:31 PM)

This would be nice. Every once in a while the little 12 plane groups are useful in area's with limited resources, but the vast majority of the time it'd be nice to combine them into larger groups for ease of handling. Even combining the larger groups would be nice for training groups.

Combining LCU's as well would be a godsend. Combining all of the little seabee groups into seabee divisions would be so fine. You could keep a couple small groups for flexibility, but combine the rest into monster groups since that's how we end up operating them anyways. Ditto for artillery groups since they seem to come in little 10 gun groups that are worthless by themselves anyways and end up operated in much larger blocks.


I don't really expect this sort of thing to make it into AE at this point [:D], but these are definitely features I would like to see in witp 2 if it's ever made.



plund -> RE: Merging air squadrons into groups? (12/22/2010 11:38:22 PM)

What would be the other side effects of combining a number of smaller squadrons?  What about the maximum limit on planes and pilots?  are the totals combined or do you use the maximum number for the squadron you receiving the planes/pilots?



Spectex -> RE: Merging air squadrons into groups? (12/23/2010 11:45:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni

This would be nice. Every once in a while the little 12 plane groups are useful in area's with limited resources, but the vast majority of the time it'd be nice to combine them into larger groups for ease of handling. Even combining the larger groups would be nice for training groups.

Combining LCU's as well would be a godsend. Combining all of the little seabee groups into seabee divisions would be so fine. You could keep a couple small groups for flexibility, but combine the rest into monster groups since that's how we end up operating them anyways. Ditto for artillery groups since they seem to come in little 10 gun groups that are worthless by themselves anyways and end up operated in much larger blocks.


I don't really expect this sort of thing to make it into AE at this point [:D], but these are definitely features I would like to see in witp 2 if it's ever made.


Even less flexibility than that would be a huge improvement. AE broke many of the WITP land divisions down into regiments, but on the flip side you can generally recombine them - I'd say it's an improvement on average. It's not clear why we weren't given a similar ability to recombine air groups....



erstad -> RE: Merging air squadrons into groups? (12/24/2010 2:29:44 AM)

Count your blessings with 12 plane groups. Later the Allies get a bunch of 7 plane squadrons (superforts)



Fallschirmjager -> RE: Merging air squadrons into groups? (12/24/2010 3:29:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni
I would like to see in witp 2 if it's ever made.


WITP: 2
The year is 1948 and the world is once again at peace. However a new threat lurks...
Rising out of the Sea of Japan Godzilla unleashes it's wrath and destroys the entire US occupation force. The United States and Britain must form as uneasy alliance with their former enemy Japan to defeat this new force.

The marketing writes itself!



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Merging air squadrons into groups? (12/24/2010 4:55:55 AM)

I'd love to have the ability to form and break up air groups. I played Downfall and it made life a lot easier to have almost the whole USAAF in groups.

Cheers and Merry Christmas,
CC



Alfred -> RE: Merging air squadrons into groups? (12/24/2010 5:10:29 AM)

I for one hope the devs completely disregard this call for aggregating air groups. It would totally defeat the design purpose of (a) having administrative stacking limits at airfields based on size, (b) reduce considerably the benefit of proper planning with the placement of Air HQs and (c) remove one of the new built in speedhumps put in to reduce the operational tempo.

Alfred



erstad -> RE: Merging air squadrons into groups? (12/24/2010 6:15:44 AM)

quote:

It would totally defeat the design purpose of (a) having administrative stacking limits at airfields based on size,(b) reduce considerably the benefit of proper planning with the placement of Air HQs and (c) remove one of the new built in speedhumps put in to reduce the operational tempo.


Well, there's still the engine stacking limit. If I had a group of, say, 28 B-29s, it would still be 112 engines. One way to compensate for changing the group size might be to edge up the penalty for engine overstacking.

Part of the concern is that the median for allied group size is around 15 planes. for Japanese, it is around 27.(*) This means that for the same number of groups allowed by an airfield, the Japanese can field about twice the planes. Were the Japanese really better organized and more logistics-focused than the Allies?

(*) both statements based on mid-44 games.



Sredni -> RE: Merging air squadrons into groups? (12/24/2010 9:10:20 AM)

I find as allies that engine stacking is the larger part of my airfield limiter anyways. Increasing airgroup size would merely be a time saver, with a lot of the time saving being with trainee groups back in the states.

I suppose increasing single engine fighter group sizes would allow you to stack a lot more pre AF 9, which could be a problem for balance reasons. I remember early war I had a lot of issues reaching the engine stacking limit in india with their smaller fighter groups until I reached level 9 AF's. It's generally only with p-38's and 4e bombers that we hit the engine limit before we hit the admin # limit.

But I also generally only operated from level 9 AF's anyways.

... ahh but now that I think about it it would make basing fighters forward easier. Say you've just taken a level 3 AF, you could put 150 single engine fighters there if you didn't have the limit of # of airgroups. Whereas now we could fit 3 groups (25+25+25, or 16+16+16, or whatever) or 3+3 groups? with a decent air hq(with a radius of 3) nearby. At least I think that's how the air hq's work. 6 25 plane groups would give you 150 planes as well though, the engine limit for a level 3 AF. Or 108 if you were using marine units, or 96 if you were using british 16 plane units.

Anything with 2 engines or more will generally hit the engine limit before the stacking limit.

As a compromise (if necessary for balance reasons) I would be happy to see some form of trainer groups brought back, with the ability to combine trainer groups together. A toggle we could switch back and forth, and then if we switch them back to combat groups they could break back down to their normal size units. I just want this to lessen the tedium of trainee pilot management.


edit: or include bombers along with the trainee groups. Bombers will hit the engine limit before the AF limit (when using hq's) so it doesn't really matter. Every time I need to rebase my bomber force (like 90% of my operational bombers are in one stack heh) I shudder because it's such a chore of clicking, so being able to combine bomber groups would be more of a tedium saver then an actual change to gameplay.



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