Make me not want this (Full Version)

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Fallschirmjager -> Make me not want this (12/23/2010 4:24:16 AM)

I so badly want to check this out. But with all the other games I have purchased recently and my rekindled interested in AE I fear I will buy it and never play it. Can someone badmouth the game for me [:D]
If no one steps up I fear I will end up purchasing it shortly after Christmas.



Tzar007 -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 5:05:20 AM)

You fear you will buy it and never play it ?

You don't know what you're talking about. You will spend just 5 minutes in it "just to check it out" and you will be hooked and all your other games will be collecting dust for a while...



jomni -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 5:43:47 AM)

That's easy.
The gameplay is so quirky that the Soviets can easily escape a pocket.
Your HQ's automatically retreat when an enemy unit adjacent and no friendly combat unit to protect it even if it is still your turn (doesn't give you a chance to move it out of harms way).
When you click a hex, the whole stack is selected.
Soviet AI is smart that it avoids mistakes done historically making historical play not possible.



Sheytan -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 5:54:55 AM)

Ouch!

quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

That's easy.
The gameplay is so quirky that the Soviets can easily escape a pocket.
Your HQ's automatically retreat when an enemy unit adjacent and no friendly combat unit to protect it even if it is still your turn (doesn't give you a chance to move it out of harms way).
When you click a hex, the whole stack is selected.
Soviet AI is smart that it avoids mistakes done historically making historical play not possible.





mephistofileez -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 6:53:22 AM)

Simply the best computer war game I've ever purchased..easily.

I pocket Soviet units quite often...easy once you know what your doing.

What that we could all buy a game that is tailored to our personal likes...you adapt to any game...you'll adapt to clicking on a hex in this game...


If historical outcomes are what you seek, why would you ever play,knowing how far you'd advance, and knowing you'll lose...the AI is very good, which makes playing against it even better...


Honest, get the game and you'll see for yourself....it simply rocks.



bcgames -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 7:16:59 AM)

It's too much fun. You'll lose your job, your family, and your car...O.K. maybe not the car.



Grotius -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 7:18:09 AM)

If you're interested in the Eastern front, I think you'll like this. It might take a while to get its hooks into you, though; it's the kind of game that gets better as you grow to understand it more. You can play it as beer-and-pretzels to start, but to get good at it, you'll have to do some AE-style digging into the manual, swapping leaders, fussing with support units, and so on. But if you're in a naval/air kind of mood, this game won't scratch that itch; best to stick with AE for that.

As for the particular points mentioned in this thread: It's perfectly possible to encircle and capture the Russians, if you do so properly, which may require that you read the manual. You can't expect to form a pocket and instantly reduce it, because the game is simulating simultaneous movement, and thus gives the enemy a chance to break out. You must seal the pocket for a turn instead. It's perfectly possible to maintain control over your HQs, if you don't drive them alone right up to the enemy. Yes, the AI sometimes plays better than historical, thank goodness; otherwise it would be predictable and boring. In fact, the AI is decidedly better than WITP's was at release, and (I think) better than AE's current AI, though I have more experience with PBEM than AI with AE.

Hope this helps.



JudgeDredd -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 7:25:13 AM)

quote:


The gameplay is so quirky that the Soviets can easily escape a pocket.
Slightly unfair - I believe this has been addressed - has it not been explained by Joel that the units in that pocket were not under any ZoC restrictions and could actually flee? The pocket, apparently, was not closed

quote:


Your HQ's automatically retreat when an enemy unit adjacent and no friendly combat unit to protect it even if it is still your turn (doesn't give you a chance to move it out of harms way).
Agree

quote:


When you click a hex, the whole stack is selected.
Agree - though we have been told it's a matter of preference [:(] - if that's the case, make it an option. I love options [:D]

quote:


Soviet AI is smart that it avoids mistakes done historically making historical play not possible.
Not into the game enough to know about this.

However - the game is a very good game. I'm on my third play through Road to Minsk - trying to learn the system - so my thoughts and scope are very limited.



Gonnosuke -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 7:26:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
...interested in AE...


I'm new to wargaming so please forgive my ignorance...what is AE?



JudgeDredd -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 7:29:09 AM)

War in the Pacific:Admirals Edition



jomni -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 7:55:40 AM)

I am only echoing some of the complaints I see that turn off some people.  Maybe it will turn off the OP as requested.

As for me, NONE of these are game breakers and the game is really fun once you know the rules and get used to the interface.



JudgeDredd -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 9:01:35 AM)

Sorry - I should've put a little smiley - I did get what you were doing - he was asking for reasons to be put off.

I manily really posted to echo the two "agrees" - as I still feel quite strongly about the whole stack being selected and I am still forgetting to NOT move my last combat unit round the flank of the enemy unit and leave my HQ in that hex - hence having to suffer the displacement

Anyway - I'll drop it as they have been discussed elsewhere.



jomni -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 9:04:43 AM)

I should have put a smiley myself. [:D][:D][:D]



usecase -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 9:11:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

I am only echoing some of the complaints I see that turn off some people.  Maybe it will turn off the OP as requested.

As for me, NONE of these are game breakers and the game is really fun once you know the rules and get used to the interface.



I'll echo that. I'm trying to strike a balance between adulation and harshness. If you're old enough to remember the final gangster scene in "Some Like it Hot", I feel a bit like the head gangster pronouncing on Spats - on the one hand it's the epic grandeur of the Eastern Front, which I've been reading about since I was seven, on the other...the UI lets me select Soviet rail repair units (which are wholly computer controlled)....why, Lord, why?

It's very consuming - my beloved has already taken agin it, so beware ;).



Fallschirmjager -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 9:58:23 AM)

I primarily want to play as the Soviets. The PBEM forum seems to be kind of dead.

Is the German AI competent?



jomni -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 10:02:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I primarily want to play as the Soviets. The PBEM forum seems to be kind of dead.

Is the German AI competent?


PBEM forums is dead because the game is new and a lot of people are still learing the ropes.
Online matchmaking and mulitplayer via server makes the PBEM forum obsolete.
Some still prefer old school PBEM because of the communication.

I think German AI is not as devious as the Soviets.
And they are the losers of the war anyway so they will surely crack in one way or another.
Haven't played GC yet. Only played small scenarios.

A guy named Fallshirmjager primarily wants to play Soviets? Sounds a bit strange. [:D]



karonagames -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 10:05:19 AM)

quote:

Is the German AI competent?


It cannot create the same pockets a human player can, which gives the SU a manpower advantage. This can be offset by giving the AI advantages that increase the casualties it causes in normal combat, and reducing the number of combat ready divisions the SU can put in the front line.



Joel Billings -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 10:16:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I primarily want to play as the Soviets. The PBEM forum seems to be kind of dead.

Is the German AI competent?



Last time I looked there were over 40 multiplayer games going on the server.



jhdeerslayer -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 10:27:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I so badly want to check this out. But with all the other games I have purchased recently and my rekindled interested in AE I fear I will buy it and never play it. Can someone badmouth the game for me [:D]
If no one steps up I fear I will end up purchasing it shortly after Christmas.


A lot of good comments made here but I think in the end you may have to worry more about playing this game and not getting back to your others. Happened to me anyway. [:D]

For a game of this genre I give it a 9+, with a few issues mentioned already, and some of those go down to opinions as much as anything.



usecase -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 12:10:35 PM)

Fallschirmjager, the Axis AI is ruthless at avoiding pockets, and _will_ pocket you in a trice if you aren't meticulous - as you'd expect, it's great at doing those tactical calcuations.

It's got no particular strategic sense, and isn't as aggressive as a good human player in '41 - taking Christmas Day 1941 as the Axis highwater mark, give or take, I was defending on a N-S line of:

Pushkin-VyshnyVolocheck-Torzhok-Rzhev-Vyama-Orel-Sumy-Poltava-Kirovograd-Nikolaev, with my southernmost troops being 20 miles east of Odessa.

That's on normal; against which it was my first game (I didn't bother with the other scenarios). I'm going to start again, but with the AI cranked up to Challenging or Hard.

I really enjoyed 1942 - there were some very interesting battles in the South, where it was a case of who would pocket who, and that really impressed me.

Because I'm not particularly competent, 43/44 have turned into a slugfest with me shovelling the Axis back in a fairly unimaginative fashion. It's not particularly exciting, but it's interesting to mess about with the various game mechanics. The Soviet logistics are hopeless - it's my main takeaway from the first run through: pay attention to your force structures, I've settled on something like 6 corps per army (plus a division to sit with the HQ to stop random displacements), 3 armies per front.

That's slightly lowballing the command potential, but it's easier to keep the stacks sorted nicely. Also, don't over-mechanise - see page 260 of the manual. For every two vehicles in a front-line unit, you need an additional truck in the motor pool.

I missed that early on, but in early 1944, a good chunk of the Soviet tank park are making friendship bracelets and decorating their vehicles with spring flowers - they've no petrol or ammo to speak of. On the upside, soviet rifle corps have become absolute behemoths, even panzer divisions are speed bumps.

That may sound trivial, but when you're moving hundreds of units per turn, it gets to be important. People who enjoy micro more will make sure they maximise the command point utilization.




MengJiao -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 12:54:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I primarily want to play as the Soviets. The PBEM forum seems to be kind of dead.

Is the German AI competent?


I ran a few turns of a test of a scenario that starts in April 1942 against the German AI. I launched an offensive with Bryansk Front, Southwest Front and 3rd Tank Army against the Hungarian 2nd Army. The AI pulled back to get some reserves on turn 1 and then cut off and wrecked the spearheads of the offensive on turn 2 when things got muddy. Near Rostov the Italian 8th Army cleared up some minor penetrations.

So I think the German AI is good even in a non-standard scenario.



MengJiao -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 12:58:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni


A guy named Fallshirmjager primarily wants to play Soviets? Sounds a bit strange. [:D]



I imagine there are a lot of players who are interested in the rather different kinds of forces and solutions the
Soviets have. I think one area where this game is breaking a lot of new ground is in its ability to simulate the Red Army with
all its peculair strengths and weaknesses.



leehunt27@bloomberg.net -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 5:45:09 PM)

so far its great. a really good advance from War in Russia & Second Front. Its got a lot of the best aspects of War in the Pacific and TOAW in it as well. I played WiR for years PBEM and probably will with War in the East. I am glad i purchased it



Mifune -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 6:04:36 PM)

Fallschirmjager, I feel you it is hard enough to spend time with you woman and AE. Now throwing WitE in the mix something got to give. Even with 36 hourse in a day that is not enough time to satisfy all.[:D][:D][:D]



Avenger -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 6:20:13 PM)

I have been playing computer wargames since the 1980's. I fondly remember Kampfgruppe, Tigers in the Snow, Panthers in the Shadows, and my favorite game of all time, "Breakthrough in the Ardennes." Over the years I have played many wargames, and to date, "War in the East" has the best AI I have ever seen in a computer wargame. You should just give up and buy it. You need this game!



Fallschirmjager -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 10:23:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni



A guy named Fallshirmjager primarily wants to play Soviets? Sounds a bit strange. [:D]



Oh I would play both sides if I purchased it. But the idea of playing as the Soviet and launching late war offensives with 2 million men backed up by 22,000 guns, 2000 tanks and 3,000 aircraft sounds appealing ;)
I like firepower in my wargames



simovitch -> RE: Make me not want this (12/23/2010 11:21:14 PM)

My brother got me WITE for Christmas and I've been trying to get through the tutorial for the past several days. It's not that it seems really difficult, it's just that I guess I don't care enough to want to begin this game, or lifestyle, or whatever it is. Beer and pretzels? no, more like I.V. and bed pan IMO.

Magnificent piece of work I'm sure, but I guess after wargaming for 40 years I just don't have it in me anymore to absorb all this stuff.[:(]



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