German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (Full Version)

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JudgeDredd -> German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/28/2010 8:55:51 PM)

Can someone tidy up a wee debate we're having....how many German DIvisions were involved in Wacht am Rhein?

I just want a number - no lists required and it's a given that support units were there - I just want to know how many divisions please.

Thx



diablo1 -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/28/2010 9:38:13 PM)

quote:

The Battle of the Bulge began with a German attack on the morning of December 16 , 1944. Under cover of heavy fog, 38 German divisions struck along a 50-mile front.


quote:

The plan originally called for just under 45 divisions, including a dozen panzer and panzergrenadier divisions forming the armored spearhead and various infantry units to form a defensive line as the battle unfolded. By this time, however, the German Army suffered from an acute manpower shortage and the force had been reduced to around 30 divisions.



warspite1 -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/28/2010 11:33:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Can someone tidy up a wee debate we're having....how many German DIvisions were involved in Wacht am Rhein?

I just want a number - no lists required and it's a given that support units were there - I just want to know how many divisions please.

Thx
Warspite1

JD, according to Osprey the three German armies had a total of nineteen divisions in the First Wave. I do not know how many divisions were later thrown in as follow-up forces - sorry.



ilovestrategy -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/28/2010 11:57:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Can someone tidy up a wee debate we're having....how many German DIvisions were involved in Wacht am Rhein?

I just want a number - no lists required and it's a given that support units were there - I just want to know how many divisions please.

Thx
Warspite1

JD, according to Osprey the three German armies had a total of nineteen divisions in the First Wave. I do not know how many divisions were later thrown in as follow-up forces - sorry.



Damn, that's a lot of men in a small area. [X(]



warspite1 -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/29/2010 1:49:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Can someone tidy up a wee debate we're having....how many German DIvisions were involved in Wacht am Rhein?

I just want a number - no lists required and it's a given that support units were there - I just want to know how many divisions please.

Thx
Warspite1

JD, according to Osprey the three German armies had a total of nineteen divisions in the First Wave. I do not know how many divisions were later thrown in as follow-up forces - sorry.



Damn, that's a lot of men in a small area. [X(]

Warspite1

I think they were spread out over about 100km north to south - and of course the divisions varied enormously in size.



06 Maestro -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/29/2010 3:47:27 AM)

Divisions numbered 27, but not all of the armored divisions were released on day 1. As usual, there are other factors that cloud the answer. There were many powerful brigades that were attached to corps or at army level. I do not have that number , but I think it safe to assume that those additional brigades could have been worth several more divisions-at least.

There was supposed to be a large reserve (25?) additional divisions to exploit the breakthrough. I do not recall if those were ever actually assembled near the front-or if those were actually available. It seems the roads were choked well enough just servicing the the initial force-it is doubtful that many more were added to the effort.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/29/2010 4:37:20 AM)

18 Divisions in the initial assault, 9 divisions committed later (plus the 2 Fuehrer Brigades), would make the total involved 27 (or 28 if counting the 2 brigades as 1 division).

Hitlers unit list of November 10th included 38 divisions, but this included units of the 15th Army and 1st Army that didn't actually participate, and the 10SS Pz that was kept in reserve and never committed.



Sheytan -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/29/2010 4:42:30 AM)

True but if I recall correctly quite a few were Volks divisions.



Andrew Williams -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/29/2010 4:47:25 AM)

December 1944 - What constitutes a German Division?



Sheytan -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/29/2010 4:51:15 AM)

Good question, the TO&E was radically different depending on if it was Wehrmacht or Waffen SS since one was starved to the benefit of the other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

December 1944 - What constitutes a German Division?




Obsolete -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/29/2010 5:15:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

December 1944 - What constitutes a German Division?



[image]http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4733/divisionn.jpg[/image]



Phatguy -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/29/2010 5:31:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

18 Divisions in the initial assault, 9 divisions committed later (plus the 2 Fuehrer Brigades), would make the total involved 27 (or 28 if counting the 2 brigades as 1 division).

Hitlers unit list of November 10th included 38 divisions, but this included units of the 15th Army and 1st Army that didn't actually participate, and the 10SS Pz that was kept in reserve and never committed.


I'd say the a Fuehrer Brigade was on par with middling German division by late 44 except that it had a higher standard of troops



Sheytan -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/29/2010 5:38:17 AM)

LOL I love the quote at the bottom. Edited to add the Avatar you use is from one of my favorite movies, Kellys Heroes.

Bravo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

December 1944 - What constitutes a German Division?



[image]http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4733/divisionn.jpg[/image]




Obsolete -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/29/2010 9:57:02 AM)

Seems I never get enough compliments on my avatar on these forums.  I guess then it's a good thing when I went to upload to something more refreshing, I just get an error from the MG forum.





Joe D. -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/29/2010 2:00:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Can someone tidy up a wee debate we're having....how many German DIvisions were involved in Wacht am Rhein? ...
Warspite1

JD, according to Osprey the three German armies had a total of nineteen divisions in the First Wave. I do not know how many divisions were later thrown in as follow-up forces - sorry.



Damn, that's a lot of men in a small area. [X(]


I suspect many of those German divisions were "under strength," but why not address this question in the BftB forum?

It could use the activity [;)]



SlickWilhelm -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/29/2010 4:29:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

but why not address this question in the BftB forum?

It could use the activity [;)]


Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark! [:D]



simovitch -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/30/2010 6:33:35 PM)

quote:

I suspect many of those German divisions were "under strength," but why not address this question in the BftB forum?

It could use the activity

Ah... JD wouldn't dare post over there, since he didn't buy BFTB because it was beyond his price range, but went and bought WitE anyway.[:D]

(I guess you could say that I put the "Bitter" in Bitter Woods.[;)])



JudgeDredd -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/30/2010 7:20:08 PM)

Forget it - not worth it. Gaming needs to be done.



JudgeDredd -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/30/2010 7:23:17 PM)

Thanks to all that responded by the way. I guessed about 30 Divisions.



simovitch -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/30/2010 8:39:01 PM)

JD - I followed your reasoning for purchasing WitE. And yes it is a natural consumer response to not purchase when hit with sticker-shock. I just couldn't resist the poke![;)]

You are, or course, welcome on the BFTB forums anytime.



jomni -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/30/2010 11:11:45 PM)

I am the same as JD.  Can't justify's BFTB's price but WITE is a no brainer.



william64 -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/31/2010 2:32:44 PM)

JudgeDredd I just got over being sick for the past few days. I just saw an old reply that I did. Just for the record I am not studying internet technology, it is information technology. That and computer science are basically the same thing. I must have been really tired to have typed that.

Specifically, my degree will be CNS which is computer network systems. My biggest problem is that a part of me really wants to write programs and I will probably just have to settle for writing scripts to automate some of my more mundane task. Maybe someday, I will create something big for the internet on my own. You never can tell.



junk2drive -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (12/31/2010 2:42:27 PM)

william64

eddie once wrote that he puts war gaming on his resume. If asked, he explains that it shows ability to plan ahead and make decisions while managing subordinates that don't always do what they are told. It teaches you to be prepared to make changes to plans when conditions change. All good things for real life.

Brit that make EOS just posted that he got a job in two weeks. He credits creating a game and publishing it with getting a job. It shows initiative, creativity and ability to see a project to completion.

Keep this in mind as you go about your life and your hobby. Take a look at the freeware tools like unity and orge. Maybe do a freeware or open source first time out.

Good Luck.



Joe D. -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (1/1/2011 12:08:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

I am the same as JD.  Can't justify's BFTB's price but WITE is a no brainer.


I wish someone would explain why that's so.
BTW, isn't WiTE a remake of former Grigsby title?



junk2drive -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (1/1/2011 12:22:26 AM)

Isn't a new Ford a remake of a Model T?



ilovestrategy -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (1/1/2011 1:06:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

Seems I never get enough compliments on my avatar on these forums.  I guess then it's a good thing when I went to upload to something more refreshing, I just get an error from the MG forum.



Well, you gotta keep thinking those positive vibes!

Carrol O'Connor talking about the ionosphere is my favorite part of the whole movie.




JudgeDredd -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (1/1/2011 12:56:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Isn't a new Ford a remake of a Model T?

like that [&o]



htuna -> RE: German Divisions at the Battle of the Bulge (1/1/2011 1:51:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

I am the same as JD.  Can't justify's BFTB's price but WITE is a no brainer.


Same here... not even interested at 59.. just over that Magic Number... lol WITE is the first time crossing that Magic number.. But, I had to have it.. lol I was weak.. But I am definitely not sorry with my purchase!



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