Need tips for German 1941 winter (Full Version)

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itkotw2000 -> Need tips for German 1941 winter (12/30/2010 8:11:22 PM)

I am looking for some winter 1941 tips on for the Germans. Most of my troop deployments fail and the Russians breakthrough and run amok in my rear areas. Their biggest break through was at Gomel and they have easily drove through the frozen marshes and are now on the polish border in January.

Is the best defense to have a solid line of divisions from Lennigrad to the Black Sea, since there is no way to contain breakthroughs once they happen? Then fall back slowly as needed ?

The supply trouble in a blizzard seems minimal and unrealistic for both sides. I have no trouble with supply in the blizzard as germans, despite the penalty. My troops are always at 50% supply or so, which is plenty of supply for defending. The biggest trouble for the germans seems the CV penalty and other first winter rules. But the russians have extended their supply lines greatly, with little regard for rail lines. They are able to move supplies by trucks great distances on these "blizzard" turns.

To check out how the russians are able to supply their troops I turned the russians to player controled. The furthest HQ in the Pripyat marshes is shown as 26 hexes and 86 mp away from the nearest rail line (the nearest rail is 5 hexes west of Gomel). Their furthest troops have little supply (1-15%) but it is aparently enough to still advance in a blizzard. I took a quick count of how many divisions and brigades they have in the marshes and counted about 180. I also see that they are losing 5500 trucks per turn while tring to transport supplies that far. All of this is happening in early January.

If I can last until the spring, I am sure I will be able to capture many troops in the marshes, but without the "blizzard" restrictions I cringe to think how far the russians could drive without rail supply. It is going to be a tough spring considering the OOB screen shows the russians have 7 million troops to my 3 million and this is in January, it will be worse in coming months.

I would like to see blizzard supply MP penatlies increased from +2 mp to +4 mp, or so. Rail supply should be very important for both sides. Even russian trucks should have limits in heavy snow. Or maybe blizzards should damage more trucks, but even now the AI's advance is draining their trucks (Russian motor pool = 108k ( 118k)).



Pawsy -> RE: Need tips for German 1941 winter (12/30/2010 10:01:39 PM)

Dont over extended. Pull back to defensive positions and wait out the storm. Treat it as a operational pause to prepare to go over to the offensive in the spring.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Need tips for German 1941 winter (12/30/2010 10:19:08 PM)

1. Go into winter quarters - the last couple of turns before the mud hits design and place your defensive lines
2. Use the towns - dots and urban - to anchor your defenses.  A hedgehog is better than a solid line, as every unit will take huge casualties from the cold, in the towns at least one may have a chance to stay closer to normal.
3. Use your mountain troops as strongpoints. These units laugh at the winter, and can (along with the towns) help hold the line. Yes, even the Romanians shine here.
4. Depth - those dots to the rear, use em. Rather than a solid line, depth with pre-arranged fall back where dots exist, garrisoned and defended by ready troop.
5. Don't give up hope, you WILL lose ground, but panic will bring everything crashing down.  If need be, give up a part of the line, fall back, create new hedgehogs and hope the Russians will be slow in catching up.

These are just my tips, but they have helped me play through a couple of winters - I tried the solid line first of all and lost a fair amount of ground, so then I experimented.  I really am no better at this than you, I just am overconfident enough to try and answer.  PDH has spoken :)



KenchiSulla -> RE: Need tips for German 1941 winter (12/30/2010 10:20:53 PM)

Buy a new field marshall fur coat?



Zort -> RE: Need tips for German 1941 winter (12/30/2010 10:58:23 PM)

Would breaking the mtn divs to regts help or should they stay as divs?



vinnie71 -> RE: Need tips for German 1941 winter (12/31/2010 6:43:27 AM)

No! Don't break them up. They are your fire brigades for the winter, especially if you have to break through to surrounded units. You have only a handful of mountain divisions (2 or 3 German and 3 Romanian Brigades) but they are just awsome. I've used the Romanians to protect and anchor a line from the Crimea and at one point even counterattacked a tank brigade that had nearly cut off part of the troops.

The only other all weather troops are the Finnish but unless you take Leningrad quick, they are limited to their own country.



randallw -> RE: Need tips for German 1941 winter (12/31/2010 8:10:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: itkotw

I am looking for some winter 1941 tips on for the Germans. Most of my troop deployments fail and the Russians breakthrough and run amok in my rear areas. Their biggest break through was at Gomel and they have easily drove through the frozen marshes and are now on the polish border in January.

To check out how the russians are able to supply their troops I turned the russians to player controled. The furthest HQ in the Pripyat marshes is shown as 26 hexes and 86 mp away from the nearest rail line (the nearest rail is 5 hexes west of Gomel). Their furthest troops have little supply (1-15%) but it is aparently enough to still advance in a blizzard. I took a quick count of how many divisions and brigades they have in the marshes and counted about 180. I also see that they are losing 5500 trucks per turn while tring to transport supplies that far. All of this is happening in early January.



Wow!



JocMeister -> RE: Need tips for German 1941 winter (12/31/2010 9:04:30 AM)

Hmm,

Sounds like I went along the wrong path then. I fortified a static line along rivers and mountains from Leningrad down to Odessa. Behind the lines I keep mobile units as "firebrigades" to deal with any break in the lines. If that doesn´t work I´m pretty much toast :S Behind my defensive line its more or less open road to Berlin...

To late to change anything now thou... The mud just hit. Hopefully I killed enough soviet troops to hinder them somewhat. I inflicted 2,9 million troops and 13.000 AFVs in losses for the SU.

I guess time will tell! :)



vinnie71 -> RE: Need tips for German 1941 winter (12/31/2010 9:49:08 AM)

You've got 3 or four turns of mud. Use them wisely. Put your troops as much as possible in urban and town hexes to reduce the effect of the blizzard. Pull back slowly over the winter and rest your Panzer troops. Blizzard time is infantry war mainly.

BTW if you have Romanians in the front line, pull them back fast to urban hexes. They're practically useless, will be overrun by the Russians and it would be difficult to replace their losses. Their time will come in spring '42 when they have converted to a new and stronger TO&E and are well rested. The only exception is the Mountain Corps - they are truly wonderful in winter.



karonagames -> RE: Need tips for German 1941 winter (12/31/2010 10:05:04 AM)

quote:

You've got 3 or four turns of mud. Use them wisely. Put your troops as much as possible in urban and town hexes to reduce the effect of the blizzard. Pull back slowly over the winter and rest your Panzer troops. Blizzard time is infantry war mainly.

BTW if you have Romanians in the front line, pull them back fast to urban hexes. They're practically useless, will be overrun by the Russians and it would be difficult to replace their losses. Their time will come in spring '42 when they have converted to a new and stronger TO&E and are well rested. The only exception is the Mountain Corps - they are truly wonderful in winter.



Great advice, as noted in other threads, losing ground is inevitable, but if you can maintain line cohesion with infantry, without having to commit panzers to front line duty, there is an opportunity to recover a lot of lost ground in March when snow conditions return.



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Need tips for German 1941 winter (12/31/2010 12:58:22 PM)

I like Monty's three rules of war:

1. Always attack with strength of 3:1.

2. Don't deploy your land armies in China.

3. Don't march on Moscow.

Tip number 3 eliminates the need for a winter plan ;)



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