Where to get scenarios ? (Full Version)

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Jorm -> Where to get scenarios ? (1/3/2011 12:23:45 AM)

Hi all,

please excuse a newbie question.

I have played previous versions of harpoon 2 and 3 and am planning to get this game for the new years break to play.

There seem to be a number of sites containing player databases and scenarios that seem to require specific versions of the game or database, its a rather bewildering and almost a daunting prospect trying to get my weeny brain about it all.

Is there a simple FAQ that can assist me in letting me know where to get user made scenarios and what database i need to play them, and indeed is it easy to swap simply between the multiple databases it seems i may need ?.

I recall there were some excellent scenarios divided into time periods ( WWII. cold war , time of missiles etc)which i would like to give a bash but i dont want to purchase this new version of the game only to find it doesnt work with these scenarios.

any help would be greatly appreciated. I have had a look through the many FAQ's available but they all leap into the deep end, use multiple acronymns and dont give really me this sort of basic info im after.

cheers
J



JRyan -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/3/2011 1:40:35 AM)

quote:

There seem to be a number of sites containing player databases and scenarios that seem to require specific versions of the game or database, its a rather bewildering and almost a daunting prospect trying to get my weeny brain about it all.



No worries - I also agree it can sometimes be confusing....

There are plenty to keep you busy with the shipped game but here would be the places I would recommend first,

TAITENNEK'S HARPOON PAGES These are the latest for Harpoon ANW ver 3.10, Both with ANW and HUD 3 Databases.

harpgamer.com
This has both Harpoon 3 and Harpoon Classic scenarios.


And since you are getting the Harpoon UE, then the DB2000 is always a must (Note: Use ver 3.63 of harpoon 3 (ships with it :)) to run these...

DB2000 Links



I hope this helps..

Edit and since most previous versions of Harpoon ship with the Ultimate Edition, you will be able to play these old scenarios also...



Jorm -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/3/2011 6:31:16 AM)

ah many thanks, the DB2000 link page was the one i was thinking of from previous memories of harpoon admirals edition.
cheers

What scenarios are in this version of the game beyond those i would have already played in harpoon AE , harpoon 3 and the other versions of harpoon 2/3 ? IE ive pretty much played all the original ones a few times ?.

Ive no real interest in harpoon CE, just what seems to be Harpoon ANW.

cheers

J



Bucks -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/3/2011 8:06:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorm

Hi all,

please excuse a newbie question.

I have played previous versions of harpoon 2 and 3 and am planning to get this game for the new years break to play.

There seem to be a number of sites containing player databases and scenarios that seem to require specific versions of the game or database, its a rather bewildering and almost a daunting prospect trying to get my weeny brain about it all.

Is there a simple FAQ that can assist me in letting me know where to get user made scenarios and what database i need to play them, and indeed is it easy to swap simply between the multiple databases it seems i may need ?.

I recall there were some excellent scenarios divided into time periods ( WWII. cold war , time of missiles etc)which i would like to give a bash but i dont want to purchase this new version of the game only to find it doesnt work with these scenarios.

any help would be greatly appreciated. I have had a look through the many FAQ's available but they all leap into the deep end, use multiple acronymns and dont give really me this sort of basic info im after.

cheers
J


G'day Jorm,

Good to see another Melbournian on the forum. [:)]

You're right about the multiple versions etc and even if I'm part of the Dev team, I'll admit it must be slightly daunting to have to match versions with databases and scenarios. That being said there's a reason for it.

With every new release/patch we undertake, the game's internal structure changes. In some cases this relates to the database fields available for editing or changes to what they represent. When this happens DB Editors like myself need to adjust the database and in most cases update the scenarios to some degree.

Although you've played all the original scenarios, without "blowing my own trumpet", the HUD3 DB has the originals with some added bonuses. I've attempted to update them to the current game Engine, make them correct chronologically (deleted platform not in service at the date of the scenario) and added missing platforms, where the original designer may have substituted the correct platform that was missing from the Harpoon 2 database with a close match. Most have been modified in some way or other and many have been expanded, more platforms etc and adjusted missions. These will be released for the current 3.10 version over the coming days/weeks and from the limited feedback I've received, most players have appreciated the updates.

Once I release these scenarios, the HUD3 scenarios and Database will basically be the only "Official" DB that, includes all of the current 3.10 capabilities, it is also a database that uses the latest Harpoon Miniatures data, direct from Larry Bond. I have even started including new mission parameters that, make the AI more aggressive and let's say "smarter". I've even gone as far as developing my own original parameters that will be made available for players to download and include in their copy of the game. I have been working on developing my own scenarios and some are approaching what I consider completed.

If you have any further queries don't hesitate to ask.

Cheers

Darren



Magpius -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/3/2011 10:54:49 AM)

I've often wondered how many 'Melbournians' frequent Matrix?
It is great to read that many of the scenarios here are authored by Aussies.



Harpooner -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/3/2011 8:48:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorm

Hi all,

please excuse a newbie question.

I have played previous versions of harpoon 2 and 3 and am planning to get this game for the new years break to play.

There seem to be a number of sites containing player databases and scenarios that seem to require specific versions of the game or database, its a rather bewildering and almost a daunting prospect trying to get my weeny brain about it all.

Is there a simple FAQ that can assist me in letting me know where to get user made scenarios and what database i need to play them, and indeed is it easy to swap simply between the multiple databases it seems i may need ?.

I recall there were some excellent scenarios divided into time periods ( WWII. cold war , time of missiles etc)which i would like to give a bash but i dont want to purchase this new version of the game only to find it doesnt work with these scenarios.

any help would be greatly appreciated. I have had a look through the many FAQ's available but they all leap into the deep end, use multiple acronymns and dont give really me this sort of basic info im after.

cheers
J




Dear Jorm,

There is a FAQ that I know about:

http://www.harplonkhq.com/Harpoon/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.htm



Harplonkhq is a pretty good site for information and data you want. I know they update their datbase---they call it PlayerDB---every so often, and they get all kinds of scenarios just as regularly. Here's some info about it:

All H2AE scenarios were re-built and repaired for the PlayersDB. Choose the version you wish to run:

Harpoon3.6.3 users can get the Complete PlayersDB Harpoon 3.6.3 Library
Harpoon ANW users can get the Complete PlayersDB Harpoon ANW Library
Harpoon HUE users can get the Complete PlayersDB Harpoon HUE Library

Hope this helps! Wish you the best for the new year!

[:)][:)][:)]

From Harpooner



Bucks -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/5/2011 9:49:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Agent S

I've often wondered how many 'Melbournians' frequent Matrix?
It is great to read that many of the scenarios here are authored by Aussies.



Thanks Agent S,

I've seen plenty of Aussies in general, first time I'd noticed the Best Australian city being featured. [;)]

Matrix might just be where all the Wargamers ended up when the "Physical" wargaming shops died out. Good to see we "punch above our weight" here as well I suspect.

Cheers

Darren



Jorm -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/5/2011 10:28:48 AM)

Theres a bunch of us Melbournites that play WITP:AE , we've even caught up for drinks a few times over the years



Harpooner -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/6/2011 10:34:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harpooner

[...]

Dear Jorm,

There is a FAQ that I know about:

http://www.harplonkhq.com/Harpoon/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.htm



Harplonkhq is a pretty good site for information and data you want. I know they update their datbase---they call it PlayerDB---every so often, and they get all kinds of scenarios just as regularly. Here's some info about it:

All H2AE scenarios were re-built and repaired for the PlayersDB. Choose the version you wish to run:

Harpoon3.6.3 users can get the Complete PlayersDB Harpoon 3.6.3 Library
Harpoon ANW users can get the Complete PlayersDB Harpoon ANW Library
Harpoon HUE users can get the Complete PlayersDB Harpoon HUE Library

Hope this helps! Wish you the best for the new year!

[:)][:)][:)]

From Harpooner


Maybe time for a new fake identity? This one´s too obvious, really....


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2536148&mpage=4&key=



"Fake Identity"??
What fake Identity?
I signed in as Harpooner, and answered a question presented by Jorm. He wanted info about FAQ and I was able to respond. Am I wrong in doing that?? If there is falsehood, show me where it lies.
Are you the Administrator of this site? What are the policies in answering questions of that nature? What thing have I done that is frorbidden at this site? Is it sharing information about other sites? If so please tell me!



JRyan -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/6/2011 11:58:37 PM)

quote:

"Fake Identity"?? What fake Identity?
I signed in as Harpooner, and answered a question presented by Jorm. He wanted info about FAQ and I was able to respond. Am I wrong in doing that?? If there is falsehood, show me where it lies.
Are you the Administrator of this site? What are the policies in answering questions of that nature? What thing have I done that is frorbidden at this site? Is it sharing information about other sites? If so please tell me!


I don't want to get involved in this CRAP, but I can not help myself.

I will state this publicly,I have been involved in Harpoon in one fashion or another for years. In 2008, for the most part I left the scene. Even my wife was laughing at what was going on.

Its been 2 years and I come back and IT is still here.

For the sake of sanity and sake of the Sim we ALL love, ENOUGH ALREADY.

Do you not have anything to do but drive a nail in the Harpoon community? Y'all accomplish NOTHING but showing your arse in a public format.

For those reading this who don't know about what is going on, count your blessings. I have been doing some reading on the creation of Harpoon and the community which formed around it. In the early days it WAS the war game to be involved in, heck I have not heard the word CompuServe for years now. Harpoon was a Sim, but it also was a phenomenon. Do you have a copy of the Harpoon BattleBook? Read the intro. This WAS the standard.Now, I am afraid it is clouded, but so are many other games.It has been really neat to read about its development etc again. It is sad that it has come to this. It actually would make a great book including the bad parts, a soap opera of the game scene. In no time in the years until the PDB did this EVER happen before. If you do not believe me, fine. Do you research and form your own conclusions.

So I will ask, no make that PLEAD, stop with the promotion of sites that have 'questionable' motives. I have talked with a few of you over the years, and I had no ill feelings for the most part. Until it got childish, I would think you would want to promote the Sim and be constructive. This is no longer the case.

I have been GONE 2 years and still it smells.

Now I will address this to a certain person that played a MP game online with H3. I know you and you know me. Please stop, get your group to stop, chill, wait some time, play the sim, contribute and 'maybe' things can be repaired or at least calmed some.

I have had the PDB before and played some scens etc, even one MP (see above). I tried it.

I will no longer even consider downloading it.

If certain individuals want to know WHY? PM me. I will be glad to explain it. Especially HH.



Disclaimer: I am not paid nor affiliated with ASGI, Matrix, or anything else. I am a Harpooner at heart, and therefore I have a stake in this, but it is not a monetary one.








TonyE -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/7/2011 12:03:30 AM)

Harpooner, in the Harpoon world what you posted (anything Herman Hum and/or PlayersDB related) is looked on by many with disdain equal to spam.

Herman is banned here so his followers post his materials on his behalf. That gains people like you a reputation of being a pawn of Herman's (knowingly or unwittingly, the difference doesn't matter to most who just want him to go away). It is also what led koehlbach to think that you may be Herman himself in disguise (again most just want him and his materials to go away, no matter how they arrive).

This is an open forum, you can post HH's advertising here like you have done but the hope is that over time you'll realize he's using you to further break down the Harpoon community rather than build it up.

Mike, I believe now is when you pour on that HHQ magic (you guys are masters, Herman really should have taken a class on influencing people from you).



Magpius -> DB Update....but? (1/7/2011 12:41:21 AM)

Noob question for Bucks.
I downloaded your (HUD3 FOR HARPOON ANW 3.10 NOV 8TH, 2010) how do I now get my now obsolete scenarios to run with the update?
Is there a simple way to do this?
thanks.




Bucks -> RE: DB Update....but? (1/7/2011 2:44:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Agent S

Noob question for Bucks.
I downloaded your (HUD3 FOR HARPOON ANW 3.10 NOV 8TH, 2010) how do I now get my now obsolete scenarios to run with the update?
Is there a simple way to do this?
thanks.




Agent S,

I think you're lucky I'm still talking to you... Collingwood supporter me???!!!! [&:]

Ok let's wade through the process of "Rebuilding" older scenarios and some of the points to be aware of.

1. To use the current/previous versions of the HUD series of databases, you'll need to make sure they were designed using the ODB (Original standard Harpoon database) or the HUD. So all the original Harpoon 2 scenarios will work, the scenarios from Dr Who's website will in the most part as well.

2. Open the database folder contain the HUD3 and then the Scenarios folder.

Example:
========
C:\Matrix Games\Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare\Databases\HUD3\SCENARIOS\

You might want to create a new folder named something like "Legacy Scenarios" and place all the old scens you intend to rebuild in it

C:\Matrix Games\Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare\Databases\HUD3\SCENARIOS\Legacy Scenarios\

Legacy_Scen-001.SCN
Legacy_Scen-002.SCN

3. Open the Launcher and make sure you select the HUD3 as the current database as well as changing the game executable to Harpoon3ScenarioEditor.exe. Then click the Run tab.

4 The Scenario Editor allows for "Rebuilding" scenarios to the current Database version. So it's possible to open a Harpoon 2 scenario from 1996 for example and update the platforms in the relevant scenario to the current Database version's values.

5. The key to using the rebuild feature is the degree of database "index" continuity exercised by the Database Editor. Every platform, in fact every entry in the Database has an index value and these values are saved within a Scenario file. If Ship #50 is the F 88 Broadsword [Type 22/1] in the HUD3, then if another Editor has say the DDG 79 Oscar Austin [Burke IIA] using the #50 slot in his database, your Falklands Task Force just received an inadvertent "Upgrade".

5a. I have made an adjustment to the Facility Index in the HUD3. So there's been a swap of several platforms (Six (6) in all). I undertook this to help designers to use correct facilities when constructing Bases. You may find a Comm Centre becoming a SA-12 site or an SA-12 site becoming a Comm Centre or a set of Diesel Fuel Tanks. I have been repairing this in the Scenarios that should be released shortly.

6. With Scenedit open, you should notice an extra Menu option, "Edit". This allows for commands related to both Scenario design and Rebuild options. Open a scenario always using the File -> Open command or select via the Open Dialogue when Scenedit first opens. Do Not use "Load Battleset" option as this opens the scenario as if you're going to play it, not edit it.

7. Once you have the Scenario open, You can perform a basic Rebuild by selecting
a> Edit -> Rebuild Scenario -> Rebuild All Units.
b> Edit -> Rebuild Scenario -> Rebuild All Unit Magazines.

Unless you know the scenario is Logistics capable and the Airbase/Carriers etc have weapons loaded in their Magazines, this is the fastest method of updating a Scenario to the current Database version you're using. However you will not be able to use the Enforce Air Logistics option.


I'll post a step by step explanation of Logistics capability and Scenario rebuilds as a separate thread. I think mastering the basic rebuild and subsequent editing first will make taking the next step a little easier.

Of course that may be as "clear as mud" so feel free to fire back with any queries. I'm happy to start uploading some screen captures and notate them to help speed up the process. I'm also trying to allow people to avoid this by undertaking all the editing headaches out of the Player's hands.

I hope the explanation helps.

Darren



noguaranteeofsanity -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/7/2011 3:38:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan

quote:

"Fake Identity"?? What fake Identity?
I signed in as Harpooner, and answered a question presented by Jorm. He wanted info about FAQ and I was able to respond. Am I wrong in doing that?? If there is falsehood, show me where it lies.
Are you the Administrator of this site? What are the policies in answering questions of that nature? What thing have I done that is frorbidden at this site? Is it sharing information about other sites? If so please tell me!


I don't want to get involved in this CRAP, but I can not help myself.

I will state this publicly,I have been involved in Harpoon in one fashion or another for years. In 2008, for the most part I left the scene. Even my wife was laughing at what was going on.

Its been 2 years and I come back and IT is still here.

For the sake of sanity and sake of the Sim we ALL love, ENOUGH ALREADY.

Do you not have anything to do but drive a nail in the Harpoon community? Y'all accomplish NOTHING but showing your arse in a public format.

For those reading this who don't know about what is going on, count your blessings. I have been doing some reading on the creation of Harpoon and the community which formed around it. In the early days it WAS the war game to be involved in, heck I have not heard the word CompuServe for years now. Harpoon was a Sim, but it also was a phenomenon. Do you have a copy of the Harpoon BattleBook? Read the intro. This WAS the standard.Now, I am afraid it is clouded, but so are many other games.It has been really neat to read about its development etc again. It is sad that it has come to this. It actually would make a great book including the bad parts, a soap opera of the game scene. In no time in the years until the PDB did this EVER happen before. If you do not believe me, fine. Do you research and form your own conclusions.

So I will ask, no make that PLEAD, stop with the promotion of sites that have 'questionable' motives. I have talked with a few of you over the years, and I had no ill feelings for the most part. Until it got childish, I would think you would want to promote the Sim and be constructive. This is no longer the case.

I have been GONE 2 years and still it smells.

Now I will address this to a certain person that played a MP game online with H3. I know you and you know me. Please stop, get your group to stop, chill, wait some time, play the sim, contribute and 'maybe' things can be repaired or at least calmed some.

I have had the PDB before and played some scens etc, even one MP (see above). I tried it.

I will no longer even consider downloading it.

If certain individuals want to know WHY? PM me. I will be glad to explain it. Especially HH.

Disclaimer: I am not paid nor affiliated with ASGI, Matrix, or anything else. I am a Harpooner at heart, and therefore I have a stake in this, but it is not a monetary one.




quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyE

Harpooner, in the Harpoon world what you posted (anything Herman Hum and/or PlayersDB related) is looked on by many with disdain equal to spam.

Herman is banned here so his followers post his materials on his behalf. That gains people like you a reputation of being a pawn of Herman's (knowingly or unwittingly, the difference doesn't matter to most who just want him to go away). It is also what led koehlbach to think that you may be Herman himself in disguise (again most just want him and his materials to go away, no matter how they arrive).

This is an open forum, you can post HH's advertising here like you have done but the hope is that over time you'll realize he's using you to further break down the Harpoon community rather than build it up.

Mike, I believe now is when you pour on that HHQ magic (you guys are masters, Herman really should have taken a class on influencing people from you).



Have to agree with what has been said here. I've played harpoon since it was available on the Amiga and floppy disk decades ago, I then found 3.6 for the PC and eventually Matrix released ANW and now the Ultimate Edition. I was a long time lurker in what was a fairly active community, supported by numerous websites, but which has pretty much died, because of this sort of crap.

The PDB might have been a great idea and there is nothing wrong with contributing, in fact it should be encouraged, but the drama and disagreements that it and it's creator caused, meant it was far more destructive, than productive and any positives, were far out-weighed by the problems and the attitude of its creators.

By all means, produce your own scenarios, database and website, but there is no need to lampoon or ridicule others who are also contributing with the name of your website, or to cause dozens of other problems that lead to arguments and disagreements that ended up dividing the community and discouraging many others, who had once been active contributors.

Perhaps most importantly, don't then constantly seek to advertise or promote the very thing that helped kill off what was once a much more active community and expect to receive a good response, as it is only going to create even more drama and further discourage those who have tolerated this crap, yet continue to persist, hoping things might actually one day improve.



JRyan -> RE: DB Update....but? (1/7/2011 3:41:31 AM)

Tell you what, I have been looking around and HH this is for YOU. You will do what you can to hurt this sim. I want those who do not know what you have done, but can see what you are STILL doing. This is sick. You need help.

This ..... goes around looking for press releases and post the SAME info.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=51423

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3164423.html

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=176769

http://www.gamezplay.org/2010/11/larry-bonds-harpoon-ultimate-edition.html

http://www.gamesforum.ca/showthread.php?t=521250


Is this what you do for something you supposedly are passionate about? Its a lie. Your actions speak for you.

I have been playing HUE (both games, and actually some of the older HC ones for giggles) and I have had 2 issues. Both have been posted here and you know what? Both were able to be continued from saved games. Let's see, over 10+ games played and 2 crashes. One of these crashes I FIRMLY believe was my 5 year old computer. I am not having issues with the release.

I am enjoying it. Money well spent.


Oh but I see the name Herman Humm pop up everywhere just doing what he can to degrade the Sim.

Fine, if it sucks so bad, stop playing it or are you not the brightest plum on the tree? Gee it is a no brainer.


Folks, follow the links and look at what this man is doing. As you can see he really cares about it.

One thing I will grant you Herman, you have obtained Harpoon immortality for sure...





Bucks -> RE: DB Update....but? (1/7/2011 4:05:49 AM)

Gents,

I'm not getting involved, I'm never going to that level again. People can judge me for who and what I am. If Harpoon wishes to survive, it's going to take a cooperative effort and an Adult attitude. The adult remark isn't aimed at anyone, it's a basic fact of the matter.

Here's my view, let's forget these outbursts please. I acknowledge I have been guilty of them, and it's a stupid response to these type of issues. This Thread started with a query about where to get Scenarios. Then we've touched on how to rebuild legacy Scens. In between we've indulged in pretending to be children.

So please don't turn Forum threads into something that, someone took to with a shotgun... It's a lot of effort to try to explain things here, and then it's in "delay" and now I feel like my message for what it's worth, in explaining a complex gaming system is lost in the crossfire. If Matrix want to put up with it, fine... Someone start a Defined Thread where everyone to go and flame each other. If we contain it, maybe we have a hope. Otherwise NOBODY will ever feel like asking a question without feeling like they've thrown a gallon of fuel on a birthday candle.

Darren's thought for the day...

Cheers




JRyan -> RE: DB Update....but? (1/7/2011 4:19:02 AM)

I am sorry...just frustrated beyond belief....


Please forgive my rant.

Back to the thread and scenarios.....

You know, maybe one of these days I can do one that is worth a hoot.

Darrin, I would like you PM you a request if possible. It was my favorite invention. I will PM you with details, but I don't think you can add it as it is 'vapornauctics'.





Magpius -> RE: DB Update....but? (1/7/2011 6:59:04 AM)

Bucks,
A thorough and quick response.
Thank you.



Bucks -> RE: DB Update....but? (1/7/2011 7:15:03 AM)

Reply sent, yes I can salvage the platform although you'll have to be happy to have a [#] parked after the name. In the HUD3 all hypothetical Platforms carry the [#] symbol to denote they are just that, hypothetical.

Larry Bond and Chris Carlson now carry such entries in the Official Harpoon Data Annexes so the HUD3 has "opened" up to the idea a little.

I've said this before and will simply point it out again. The HUD - Harpoon Users' Database is open to platform requests/inclusions and although there may be a time lag as I add and test them, if people have ideas let me know and they'll get added to the, "to do" list.

Cheers

Darren



mikmykWS -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/7/2011 10:59:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyE

Mike, I believe now is when you pour on that HHQ magic (you guys are masters, Herman really should have taken a class on influencing people from you).



By virtue of you still talking trash about us years after I think we know the score [:)]

It was always about being able to implement and deliver db's, scenarios and content to help move Harpoon forward whatever site it was. Self serving forum posts, indulging on picking on the banned or angling to get other people banned never amounted to much other than displaying a lack of guts and focus.

Anyways hope you guys get it together and start producing content etc. I want ANW alive and well because I still play this game!

Tnx



Harpooner -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/8/2011 12:47:03 AM)

Look, I didn't mean to start any hostile reaction here....I just came to the site to get whatever new info there might be about Harpoon, maybe get some updates, learn about new platforms, how build platforms of my own and share some! But it seems that there's a lot of hostility towards this Herm guy and any body who comes in contact with him. I didn't mean to start a war here....there's enough REAL war in the world already, and this is just a game,for heaven's sake!

OK then---I'm sorry...I won't post any more links to sites....it's just not worth all this hostility!
[sm=00000924.gif]



Vincenzo_Beretta -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/10/2011 8:51:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harpooner

Look, I didn't mean to start any hostile reaction here....I just came to the site to get whatever new info there might be about Harpoon, maybe get some updates, learn about new platforms, how build platforms of my own and share some! But it seems that there's a lot of hostility towards this Herm guy and any body who comes in contact with him. I didn't mean to start a war here....there's enough REAL war in the world already, and this is just a game,for heaven's sake!

OK then---I'm sorry...I won't post any more links to sites....it's just not worth all this hostility!
[sm=00000924.gif]


Well, look at the bright side: you had a comprehensive show of what the "Harpoon Community" is about: [:)]

- People assuming things and then blaring away without bothering to check facts first.

- People who go through the effort to track down someone else's posts on a score of other boards, but making sure to end up badmouthing him on one where they know can't respond to their tirade

- ...And, if you post links to sites containing free stuff for Harpoon, stuff done for the benefit of all but somehow not approved by the Local Politburo or whatever, you get hostility. Nah, make that an attempt to "educate" you [:D]

You are lucky: some players need a week or more to get the complete package! You got it all in a single thread. Ah, well, welcome! [:)]



JRyan -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/10/2011 12:16:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta You are lucky: some players need a week or more to get the complete package! You got it all in a single thread. Ah, well, welcome! [:)]


Blah Blah - whine some more. This was a very tight knit community for many years. These childish games did not start until the arrival of HH. This is FACT. He is also a thief, FACT.

The thing I can not figure out is why? I have talked with him and he seemed like a nice guy. I don't understand why he wanted to drive a nail where he did. Is it because he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar? He is vindictive for sure as he doesn't stop. This was going on 2 years ago when I dropped off the scene, and low and behold it still is via proxy. Why do you help him?

So when someone comes in advertising the PDB like that, it is assumed it is HH or one of his stooges. Y'all like to do the advertising thing real well.

Why not have a tag line with it? The Worlds best known Plagiarized Database!

There is a reason he is banned from most Harpoon sites. He is the main reason that the Harpoon Headquarters is no longer. These issues did not come around until HH. What a great accomplishment Herman. Think about that one...

back to the thread at hand....."Where to get Databases and Scenarios", not where to receive stolen material.



mikmykWS -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/11/2011 1:54:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan

He is the main reason that the Harpoon Headquarters is no longer.


On a positive note Ethan while it seemed horrible at the time his actions and the fallout ultimately led us to be in the best possible position to do the things we wanted to do. Although we all wish Harpoon well and miss the heck out of the some of the guys I don't know if we'd go back and change things if we had the chance. Things happening for a reason, karma and all that jazz.

<shrugs>

Still hoping somebody around here grabs the bull by the freakin horns though. Be a real shame if after all that work nobody got anything positive out of it.






Bucks -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/11/2011 3:52:23 AM)

Hi All,

Where to get scenarios?

The first specifically updated and modified scenarios using the HUD3 and brought to ANW 3.10 standard have been posted for download at Taitennek's Harpoon pages.

The files can be found here: http://www.taitennek.com/hud3-db/hud3-index.htm

There are 10 scenarios initially available for download, 9 Coldwar Battleset originals and a modified version of Airlane Raiders. The latest edition of the HUD3 (Version 1.5.5 - 5th January 2011) is also available and required to play these scenarios.

Enjoy

Darren



Vincenzo_Beretta -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/11/2011 8:55:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan
Blah Blah - whine some more.


You mean: instead of making a constructive argument? [:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan
This was a very tight knit community for many years. These childish games did not start until the arrival of HH. This is FACT. He is also a thief, FACT.


Please, cite? P.s. Re-gurgitating the same accusation isn't proof of a fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan
The thing I can not figure out is why?


To condemn someone you need means, opportunity, and motive. You freely admit that you don't have at least one of the three but you still pass judgment, and this judgment is "guilty".

See how it is easy to fumble?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan
Is it because he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar?


IIRC, it was actually the other way around: someone else was caught sabotaging community work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan
Why do you help him?


Many reasons. One is that he paid for the roller-coaster ride and the following booze for both when I was in Edmonton. You will find others further down. But the fundamental one is that every time I personally checked something Herman told me

IT ALWAYS CHECKED

...Whereas I lost count of the attempts to smear him I was able to debunk by simply looking personally at facts (or at the lack of alleged ones). Some attempts were, let's say, marginally sophisticated, but none of them really held water after the most superficial of examinations.

Just look at this thread. Slanderous accusations that "Harpooner" was a fake identity just because he posted links to content that both he and HH and use. What's next? A lynch mob for the first foreigner who comes in town?

This is the gist of it all, in simple words, on a simple thread. Multiply it for 100.000: you will still get evil hot air on HH, and facts from either me or him or whoever bothered to look for them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan
So when someone comes in advertising the PDB like that, it is assumed it is HH or one of his stooges. Y'all like to do the advertising thing real well.


Let's say that I find the word "stooge" offensive - mostly because, as it happens, I act out of free will. Let's also say that I don't really care - mostly because the ones who whine about the "once fairytale community" are then also the very first to distribute slander and offences. Let's, finally, also look at some of these so-hated facts.

*I* own the site. It is mine, paid yearly with own money. So, fact is that I post announcements regarding new material uploaded on a site I own. True, once upon a time *my* stooge HH (if you really want to use the word), did this dirty work for me. Now, sometimes I do it, sometimes it is done by others.

Let's look at some more facts. I don't make money from the site. None. Not even from Google ads.

So your question could become "What's your motive?" and I would answer "The same that moves people who host mods and scenarios for other games published by Matrix".

Now we have established that I pay for a site that gives free content for a game without second aims - neither hidden nor guessed. What's the reaction of that faction of the community that considers itself "healthy", "righteous", "official", or whatever? Either denigrate it, or smear it, or both without giving a single, factual, reason (And, I could add, without even having a clue about who owns what).

Are you really still asking why I usually side with Herman?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan
Why not have a tag line with it? The Worlds best known Plagiarized Database!


The "because it is not true until proven and it never happened" answer comes readily to mind. However, I like more the "Never trust words, always check for yourself" tag line more [;)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan
There is a reason he is banned from most Harpoon sites.


I guess you have your reason. I also have one. Reasons are 234 for $59.99.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan
He is the main reason that the Harpoon Headquarters is no longer.


This is wrong on at least three counts. First: there is no reason why a site should cease to exist just because a member, or even a cohort of members, is troublesome: just ban them and move on (which is, as you explicitly noticed, what they did). Second, the core of HarpoonHQ is still right there, only with a different name. I won't mention it because they came blaring about themselves some time ago on this board and Don Gilman didn't really like it. Third...

quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan
These issues did not come around until HH. What a great accomplishment Herman. Think about that one...


...There is a game, out there, whose working title is "Red Pill". Think about this one.

BTW: if you really want to talk about the alleged "decline" of HarpoonHQ, don't forget to include stunts like altering the Database 2000 without warning to make third party scenarios crash. The whole stunt is out there, in the open. This got me banned from HarpoonHQ. It happens.

...Which, incidentally, was also the reason why the need for a new DB properly maintained became evident.

Of course if you want, you can also go back to "HarpoonHQ Glory Days" by using Wayback Machine, and see what they had to say about the current iterations of the game even without HH's help. Take your pick.

[For those who don't want to click and read the whole tirade, here is the money quote on ANW from HarpoonHQ:

The developer’s horrible planning, their limited understanding of naval warfare, plus their poor testing has resulted in hundreds of newly introduced bugs that make the game unplayable. And it gets worse with each new release. The scenarios they ship with the game are not compatible with the game engine any more, and the database will not work as intended. The scenario editor has been released in a dysfunctional and untested state, and not even the AGSI ‘experts’ (uhm, right… LOL!) know how to use the ‘updated’ database editor. Version 3.7 and 3.8 are also far less stable than 3.6, and run considerably slower.]

Please, note that I neither agree nor disagree with this - I'm simply reporting it along with the fact that it's HH who is usually acused of "actively damaging the Harpoon brand". Personally, I strive and hope for a better Harpoon, and I support those working towards the same end.]

quote:

ORIGINAL: JRyan
back to the thread at hand....."Where to get Databases and Scenarios", not where to receive stolen material.


This, I guess, allows for announcements regarding PDb's scenarios to continue - until the contrary is proven.

BTW, you are not the first to make such accusations. It happens quite often on UseNet, too, at least sparking debate. And Herman is always more than willing to discuss bugs and other deficiencies. I don't think I've ever seen him turn down an opportunity to discuss problems.

This is why I am baffled why some people are so reluctant to ask him about these problems directly. However, I *can* understand how there is probably a component of fear in actually checking for the truth (especially when someone has already stuck his neck out so far in “judgment”… [:)])



Dimitris -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/11/2011 11:04:53 AM)

Just to clarify a few points...

On the alleged "DB2000 sabotage": http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1273

On the origins of the PDB: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1262

AGSI's official confirmation: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1291

Our (prophetic, as it turned out) warning back in 2006: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=1265


On a more general note...

Everyone should consider whether his time is spent more productively beating long-dead horses to glue or moving the hobby forward with new work - be that through scenarios, DBs, supplemental material or even whole new games. 10-mile long forum diatribes look nice and I guess they can boost their authors' ego but nobody I know buys a game or joins a community for that drama. We got smarter, made our decision and have never looked back since. I think it's high past time for everyone to do the same.

Back to working on Red Pill...



JRyan -> RE: Where to get scenarios ? (1/11/2011 6:28:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo BerettaYou mean: instead of making a constructive argument?
I was making an observation. The facts are out there, ASGI even admitted the PDB plagiarized the DB2000. Why not just admit it and move on? Ah, In too deep now to do that I see.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Please, cite? P.s. Re-gurgitating the same accusation isn't proof of a fact.
Well when I left HH was the issue, when I come back he is now just one of the issues, but they all lead back to HIM in one way or another. His hand was in them.

See above, this is not for debate. The proof is published

quote:

ORIGINAL: To condemn someone you need means, opportunity, and motive. You freely admit that you don't have at least one of the three but you still pass judgment, and this judgment is "guilty".

I gave the benefit of doubt at one time, but by his actions he left no doubt.

quote:

ORIGINAL:See how it is easy to fumble?

Fumble? that is funny. For those who love the game so much, it is strange the actions Y'all take.


quote:

ORIGINAL:IIRC, it was actually the other way around: someone else was caught sabotaging community work.


That is complete crap, The DB2000 was HH property period. Property that I might add was plagiarized, but nonetheless, they could modify it in what ever fashion they deemed necessary.

For those that don’t know, a modification was made, a fingerprint so to speak, to prove a point. Not only did it finger the culprit (~PDB), but also the scenario rebuilder issue nailed it 100%. Caught red handed.
Knoweth thy protestith to much!


quote:

ORIGINAL:Many reasons. One is that he paid for the roller-coaster ride and the following booze for both when I was in Edmonton. You will find others further down. But the fundamental one is that every time I personally checked something Herman told me IT ALWAYS CHECKED

Checked? Ok I will humor you for a minute. PROVE that the fingerprint that was caught in the PDB was not there for all to see. Prove the scenario rebuilder was not used without permission. You see you cant because facts are facts. How do you check things, the answer has been posted and proven before, there is no reason to repost it.

As for the Poster, that is the operating methods he/you use. You promote stolen intellectual property. Period. The poster was probably unknowingly posting this, now he knows.


quote:

ORIGINAL:...Whereas I lost count of the attempts to smear him I was able to debunk by simply looking personally at facts (or at the lack of alleged ones). Some attempts were, let's say, marginally sophisticated, but none of them really held water after the most superficial of examinations.


Just so everyone knows:

[B] pla•gia•rism [pley-juh-riz-uhm, -jee-uh-riz-]
–noun
1. the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work.
2. something used and represented in this manner. [/B]


quote:

ORIGINAL:Just look at this thread. Slanderous accusations that "Harpooner" was a fake identity just because he posted links to content that both he and HH and use. What's next? A lynch mob for the first foreigner who comes in town?


Not at all, but a Bull in a China shop can cause issues if not addressed. It has been the operating way of doing things for quite a while now. Being banned with his own name I would not have put it past him.

quote:

ORIGINAL:This is the gist of it all, in simple words, on a simple thread. Multiply it for 100.000: you will still get evil hot air on HH, and facts from either me or him or whoever bothered to look for them.


EVIL? What?

Once again
Just so everyone knows:
[B] pla•gia•rism [pley-juh-riz-uhm, -jee-uh-riz-]
–noun
1. the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work. 2. something used and represented in this manner. [/B]



quote:

ORIGINAL:Let's say that I find the word "stooge" offensive - mostly because, as it happens, I act out of free will. Let's also say that I don't really care - mostly because the ones who whine about the "once fairytale community" are then also the very first to distribute slander and offences. Let's, finally, also look at some of these so-hated facts.



Well that is the way I see it, you defend him and his actions so therefore are by default and accomplice.

Fairytale community? Well gee; it was a pretty tight knit one until HH. Why is that? Divide and Conquer?


quote:

ORIGINAL:*I* own the site. It is mine, paid yearly with own money. So, fact is that I post announcements regarding new material uploaded on a site I own. True, once upon a time *my* stooge HH (if you really want to use the word), did this dirty work for me. Now, sometimes I do it, sometimes it is done by others.


So host stolen material with your money. It’s up to you.


quote:

ORIGINAL:Let's look at some more facts. I don't make money from the site. None. Not even from Google ads.


Well in one respect that is good, at least you are not befitting monetarily by hosting stolen material.

quote:

ORIGINAL:So your question could become "What's your motive?" and I would answer "The same that moves people who host mods and scenarios for other games published by Matrix".


This one truly puzzles me; if you like it so much why try to DESTROY it? Why be associated with such an endeavor?


quote:

ORIGINAL:Now we have established that I pay for a site that gives free content for a game without second aims - neither hidden nor guessed. What's the reaction of that faction of the community that considers itself "healthy", "righteous", "official", or whatever? Either denigrate it, or smear it, or both without giving a single, factual, reason (And, I could add, without even having a clue about who owns what).



Oh I think there are hidden reasons; I just have NO clue as to what they are. I have no $ stake in it. I helped with something I loved and hope to do again. I would not even consider trying to destroy it.

quote:

ORIGINAL:Are you really still asking why I usually side with Herman?


Ok , let me proposed you a hypothetical question. If you became convinced that the property was plagiarized, would you still act in this manner? Would you support him then so diligently?


quote:

ORIGINAL:The "because it is not true until proven and it never happened" answer comes readily to mind. However, I like more the "Never trust words, always check for yourself" tag line more [;)]


Give it a REST. It HAS ALREADY BEEN PROVEN!


quote:

ORIGINAL:I guess you have your reason. I also have one. Reasons are 234 for $59.99.


That should not bother you at all; I mean you pay with your own money to host a site with ill gotten booty on it.


quote:

ORIGINAL:This is wrong on at least three counts. First: there is no reason why a site should cease to exist just because a member, or even a cohort of members, is troublesome: just ban them and move on (which is, as you explicitly noticed, what they did).


I can see why, it is obvious to the most casual of observers.


quote:

ORIGINALSecond, the core of HarpoonHQ is still right there, only with a different name. I won't mention it because they came blaring about themselves some time ago on this board and Don Gilman didn't really like it. Third...


Look HH has moved on, I wish the utmost success for RED PILL. I wonder if they have asked for you or Herman’s assistance on it.

(((Now I don't care who you are but that is funny stuff right der!)))


quote:

ORIGINAL:..There is a game, out there, whose working title is "Red Pill". Think about this one.



Oh I have and see above....
Maybe they will let Herman make copies of the manuals?



quote:

ORIGINAL:BTW: if you really want to talk about the alleged "decline" of HarpoonHQ, don't forget to include stunts like altering the Database 2000 without warning to make third party scenarios crash. The whole stunt is out there, in the open. This got me banned from HarpoonHQ. It happens.


Do you know why they did that? I guess you are right, they should have gotten Herman's ok first before they modified THEIR stuff. Geez..


quote:

ORIGINAL:...Which, incidentally, was also the reason why the need for a new DB properly maintained became evident.


Which is why the Plagiarized Database (PDB) was born. Good one!


quote:

ORIGINAL:Of course if you want, you can also go back to "HarpoonHQ Glory Days" by using Wayback Machine, and see what they had to say about the current iterations of the game even without HH's help. Take your pick.


Look I will not deny there are/were bugs. With a limited amount of bugs/people they were trying to fix it. They did not need to be bombarded with Bug fixes by the 100's. Some of course were good to know for the programmers, but I did not need to know the bathroom on my B-2 would not flush when there was a full moon. It became a GAME for Herman. Heck I remember that was going on when I left.


quote:

ORIGINAL:
[For those who don't want to click and read the whole tirade, here is the money quote on ANW from HarpoonHQ:

The developer’s horrible planning, their limited understanding of naval warfare, plus their poor testing has resulted in hundreds of newly introduced bugs that make the game unplayable. And it gets worse with each new release. The scenarios they ship with the game are not compatible with the game engine any more, and the database will not work as intended. The scenario editor has been released in a dysfunctional and untested state, and not even the AGSI ‘experts’ (uhm, right… LOL!) know how to use the ‘updated’ database editor. Version 3.7 and 3.8 are also far less stable than 3.6, and run considerably slower.]


Yeah yeah, so by the new version and use 3.63 and the old DB2000, oh wait you have your own version now.......

This is a nich game/sim. It does not have a million dollar budget like some. I have played ANW for 4 scenarios now and have not had a single crash, plus on a good note, my B-2's toilet flushed.


quote:

ORIGINAL:Please, note that I neither agree nor disagree with this - I'm simply reporting it along with the fact that it's HH who is usually acused of "actively damaging the Harpoon brand". Personally, I strive and hope for a better Harpoon, and I support those working towards the same end.]


Well if you do, and Herman does, it is time for this crap to stop. Admit mistakes and Move on, the community knows what happened.


quote:

ORIGINAL:This, I guess, allows for announcements regarding PDb's scenarios to continue - until the contrary is proven.


Well by all means go right ahead. I have an advertising slogan for you.

The PDB, the database for when you don’t have time to do the work yourself. Its the People's Database, Plagiarized for everyone!


quote:

ORIGINAL:BTW, you are not the first to make such accusations. It happens quite often on UseNet, too, at least sparking debate. And Herman is always more than willing to discuss bugs and other deficiencies. I don't think I've ever seen him turn down an opportunity to discuss problems.


Nor will I be the last I guess. True he was very helpful etc at times. But judging the fruits of the tree, some branches yield rotten fruit.

quote:

ORIGINAL:This is why I am baffled why some people are so reluctant to ask him about these problems directly. However, I *can* understand how there is probably a component of fear in actually checking for the truth (especially when someone has already stuck his neck out so far in “judgment”… [:)])


Well he has not answered the Database fingerprint issues that were proven, he has not answered the Scenario rebuilder issue. So until he does that, I have no need to even listen when the truth is not spoken.

Disclaimer: IF it can be proven that I made a false statement, then I will of course offer an apology and retract immediately. In my mind the question of wether the DB2000 was copied was answered beyond a reasonable doubt. I personally did not witness the Scenario Rebuilder issue, but it was offered a proof because the ‘fingerprint’ was there.



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