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warspite1 -> RE: Question after earlier Tiornu remark (1/3/2011 9:43:35 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jaroen
If it's not allowed to bring back an argument from a older closed thread I'd understand.
I can only say this question has nothing to do with any nationalistic views I might have.
The question is related to the earlier Royal Navy sacrifice thread.
After stating that sinking the French war ships at Mers-el-Kebir Tiornu followed by quoted reply below:
The British did attack the French to prevent French ships from falling into German hands--that is true. The fact that the French ships were not going to fall into German hands anyway does not change the British purpose. It merely makes the attack decision look foolish. In military terms, it was a foolish decision. If it played a role in securing political gains (e.g., increased connection with US industry), then an argument can be made that it was worth it. Personally, I'm skeptical of that argument.
It's not true that every option was given to the French. Every British-approved option was given.
My question is about the second statement; "the fact that French ships were not going to be handed over to the Germans".
How was that a fact???
Looking through the older thread I don't find any specific explanation about it and I'm very intrigued about any information/data which supports that so-called fact. To my knowledge it was a very uncertain time, a very unsecure time, and nothing was clear about anything.
Aside from that . . . I think supporting that statement is logically required to make the argument run true!
Thanks beforehand!
Warspite1
I think what Tiornu was trying to say was that it was ultimately a fact that the ships were not handed over to the French and indeed, Admiral Darlan, specifically promised that the ships would not fall into German hands.
The counter-point made by me, others and I believe yourself, is that Winston Churchill did not know that was going to be the case. Because he lacked any mystical powers of hindsight, he had instead, to rely upon his judgement. In doing so, he had to weigh up
- Would the Germans seize the ships anyway (with or without the help of Darlan)
- Would the Germans (with or without Spanish help) seize Gibraltar
Get the decision right, and you may (depending upon the French response) kill hundreds of Frenchmen
Get it wrong, and you throw your country, its people and their way of life down the drain - oh and allow Europe to descend into a new dark age into the bargain.
Great choice eh? Thank God - no Thank Winston S Churchill that the right decision was made, and be sorry that it took the lives of 1,000 + French sailors. The only consolation is that they ultimately did not die for nothing..
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