Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (Full Version)

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Ebusitanus -> Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/7/2011 11:09:40 AM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNCBEZtzSz4

I recently could read this book about the hard fighting that took place at Buna late 1942 and early 1943 in New Guinea. Its amazing how "forgotten" these campaigns have been in relation to the more "shiny" ones such as Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima or Okinawa.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51r0RSJ-z9L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU02_.jpg




Schanilec -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/7/2011 2:41:05 PM)

Read The Green Mountain Boys a couple of months ago. Very good read. Also enjoyed Fortress Rabaul. Now into Volume IV of S E Morrison's The History of of the United States Navy in World War II. 10 volumes to go.




Enigma6584 -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/7/2011 6:12:59 PM)

Hi Schanilec,

Do you mean "Ghost Mountain Boys?"  I only ask because I just got this book and was wondering if it is the same one you are talking about.




Schanilec -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/7/2011 6:58:30 PM)

Yes, that is what I meant. Sorry about that. Hadn't finished my first cup of coffee.




JeffroK -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/7/2011 7:36:53 PM)

Not sure if available easily in the USA, look up books by Peter Brune, an excellent writer who did a number of books on this era.




Ebusitanus -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/7/2011 8:50:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Not sure if available easily in the USA, look up books by Peter Brune, an excellent writer who did a number of books on this era.


Found five matches on Amazon. After recently watching that Aussie flick "Kokoda" I feel ready to read up on their toils in NG




Schanilec -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/7/2011 9:00:43 PM)

Then you'll need the new Campaign Series from Matrix and play the Kokoda Trail campaign.
I need to get that movie.




Reg -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/7/2011 9:23:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ebusitanus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNCBEZtzSz4

I recently could read this book about the hard fighting that took place at Buna late 1942 and early 1943 in New Guinea. Its amazing how "forgotten" these campaigns have been in relation to the more "shiny" ones such as Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima or Okinawa.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51r0RSJ-z9L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU02_.jpg


Blame the MacArthur publicity machine.........

(there wasn't enough mileage in it..[:(])





Alpha77 -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/9/2011 1:31:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ebusitanus


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Not sure if available easily in the USA, look up books by Peter Brune, an excellent writer who did a number of books on this era.


Found five matches on Amazon. After recently watching that Aussie flick "Kokoda" I feel ready to read up on their toils in NG


Kokoda ? Good movie ?

Are there more movies that can be recommened from that TOW ? Or also Burma or China ?




aspqrz02 -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/10/2011 12:12:28 PM)

You might also like Wau by Phillip Bradley, part of the Australian Army Campaign Series, published last year by the Australian Army History Unit.

I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but I have read most of the other books in the series, and they are uniformly excellent.

They are a sort of cross between an Osprey book and a regular history book ... but they aren't formulaic like Ospreys, Wau, for example, is 216 pages long!

(Not to be confused with his other book of much the same name, of 2008, which is available through Amazon)

http://www.army.gov.au/ahu/Wau.asp

Phil




Ebusitanus -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/10/2011 6:39:10 PM)

Googling the author up found me that the man also acts as a battlefield tour guide. I wish I hit the "Euromillions" and book the man for a whole year. Just check out the places he has on his "menu" [:)]

http://www.kokoda.com.au/

The music from the OP youtube clip has me hooked, can not stop from hearing it while playing [:D]




ilovestrategy -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/11/2011 12:19:21 AM)

Thanks for putting this up. I really enjoyed it.

I'm just trying to imagine what it was like for both sides a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG ways from home fighting in an environment totally alien from what they grew up in. Even for the Aussies it had to have been different from Australia. The mud, rain, heat, insects, bad food, shortage of food, shortage of water, difficulty in transporting ammo.

I'm so happy I was in peace time military.




aspqrz02 -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/11/2011 7:01:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy
... shortage of water ...


In New Guinea?!?!?!?![sm=00000280.gif][sm=00000280.gif][sm=00000280.gif]

Surely it would be an *excess* of water [X(]

Even if you narrow it down to *drinking* water ... usually *not* a problem [8D]

Phil




JeffroK -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/11/2011 10:43:11 AM)

Had to put chlorine tablets into anything you drank!




aspqrz02 -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/11/2011 12:36:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Had to put chlorine tablets into anything you drank!


So, "Shortage of Chlorine Tablets" would apply [;)]

Actually, as long as you drank from a fast flowing stream you were probably OK. Stagnant pools, on the other hand = really bad idea w/o chlorine!

Phil




Ebusitanus -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/11/2011 2:20:11 PM)

I was reading on the "Ghost mountain boys" book how when the fresh/green 32nd US Inf. Div. started to unload its first regiments at Port Moresby, how no one had thought about giving the GIs any sort of waterproof containers/bags. All the quinine and chlorine tablets issued were just rotting after a few days with all the humidity, rain and sweat. Most of these guys (two regiments worth of troops) ended up with all sorts of tropical diseases asides from the hell at Buna.




CaptBeefheart -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/12/2011 7:18:54 AM)

I would not receommend "Kokoda." As I recall, it's only about a young, frightened squad of Aussie soldiers in a very small patch of woods with Japanese supermen soldiers who are probably played by a local rugby team since you never see their faces. Nothing at all in the flick about the campaign or the larger picture. Looks like it's made by a typical filmmaker who doesn't know anything about war other than that it is bad. Disappointing to me, but your mileage may vary.

Just looked up the Wikipedia entry and this line explains a lot: "Due to budgetary restrictions, Grierson and co-writer John Lonie were forced to scale down the story, concentrating primarily on the trials and tribulations of one lost patrol." So there you have it.

Cheers,
CC




Ebusitanus -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/12/2011 9:16:02 AM)

Perhaps its a matter of expectations. Having read about the campaign and not expecting much in the ways of CGI or mass productions for this movie, I quite enjoyed the dense jungle experience and the misery endured by this militia squad. Its certainly worth watching IMHO. Its better to have a semi decent movie about this obscure theatre than nothing at all.

From the same wikipedia entry

quote:

The film received generally positive reviews from critics. Beyond Hollywood.com called the film 'a gem'.

Paul Byrnes from The Sydney Morning Herald called the film "a glimpse of what this dirty, nasty, very personal corner of the war was like." In Australia the film made over $3 million in its first few weeks and became one of the highest-grossing Australian films of the year. Some critics went as far to say that Kokoda could be compared to Peter Weir's film Gallipoli. Some critics felt that character development was slim except for Jack and his brother who are later found out to be of German-Australian descent. The performances by Jack Finsterer, Travis McMahon and Steve Le Marquand were highly praised by critics, considering most of them had never done a film on this large scale. The film was also praised for its realistic portrayal of the Australian 39th Battalion during the campaign as well as the jungle setting which critics found "haunting, scary and very realistic." Many Kokoda veterans have also praised the film, many calling it "the closest thing you can get other than experiencing combat on the Kokoda Track yourself".




LeeChard -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (1/12/2011 5:10:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Thanks for putting this up. I really enjoyed it.

I'm just trying to imagine what it was like for both sides a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG ways from home fighting in an environment totally alien from what they grew up in. Even for the Aussies it had to have been different from Australia. The mud, rain, heat, insects, bad food, shortage of food, shortage of water, difficulty in transporting ammo.

I'm so happy I was in peace time military.


I wonder how many of those Aussies had already spent time in North Africa before coming to the Pacific. Quite a change of pace[:D]




Alpha77 -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (2/9/2011 9:57:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Had to put chlorine tablets into anything you drank!


Silver would do the trick also and it is more healthy [;)]

Btw: This Kokoda movie seems to be simmilar to the movie I watched per accident in TV, this was about a lost American squad in the Ardennes, they later were joined by a shot down Brit pilot......there was even 1 German soldier who was not pictured as totally stupid and evil as usual in such movies from US POV... I cannot remember the name though .




noguaranteeofsanity -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (2/9/2011 11:35:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ebusitanus


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Not sure if available easily in the USA, look up books by Peter Brune, an excellent writer who did a number of books on this era.


Found five matches on Amazon. After recently watching that Aussie flick "Kokoda" I feel ready to read up on their toils in NG


Have to recommend these books as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

I would not receommend "Kokoda." As I recall, it's only about a young, frightened squad of Aussie soldiers in a very small patch of woods with Japanese supermen soldiers who are probably played by a local rugby team since you never see their faces. Nothing at all in the flick about the campaign or the larger picture. Looks like it's made by a typical filmmaker who doesn't know anything about war other than that it is bad. Disappointing to me, but your mileage may vary.

Just looked up the Wikipedia entry and this line explains a lot: "Due to budgetary restrictions, Grierson and co-writer John Lonie were forced to scale down the story, concentrating primarily on the trials and tribulations of one lost patrol." So there you have it.

Cheers,
CC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ebusitanus

Perhaps its a matter of expectations. Having read about the campaign and not expecting much in the ways of CGI or mass productions for this movie, I quite enjoyed the dense jungle experience and the misery endured by this militia squad. Its certainly worth watching IMHO. Its better to have a semi decent movie about this obscure theatre than nothing at all.


Largely it is budget restrictions that kept the story and production fairly simple, Australian films are usually made with an average budget of 1 million dollars, usually provided by government grants and by giving massive tax concessions to investors. On the other hand, the cheapest Hollywood production usually starts at 50 million dollars. This is why Australian films are not full of action scenes and CGI effects, as they cannot afford it and also the government funding, is provided to produce films that tell Australian stories for Australian audiences, which is why the film concentrates on the experiences of the Australian soldiers. Although I do agree that the characters and script could have had been a little better.

The story of the 39th battalion is also a very Australian story, that fits perfectly with our view of war and our soldiers, that differs from that in the US and comes from Australian experiences during the WW1 invasion of Gallipoli, which is considered to be a defining moment in our history. Neither was a great military victory and instead could be considered to be mistakes or blunders, ordered by a deluded high command with little understanding of reality, but the adversity, hardships and struggles overcome by the soldiers in the face of such overwhelming odds, are considered to be defining characteristics of Australians and our soldiers. In a way, the larger campaign or battle is not as important, as the experiences and struggles of the individual Australian soldiers. It was the soldiers that fought and struggled to overcome those odds during the campaign and deserve to be respected for it, not the Generals far behind the lines, issuing orders from the safety of their headquarters.

Finally, you have to remember these were conscripts, given little training and rushed into battle in an attempt to stop the Japanese advance. Although not in the film, both during the battle and after stopping the Japanese advance, Australian soldiers were called cowards by MacArthur and Blamey, who even told the 21st Brigade whilst on parade: "it's the rabbit who runs who gets shot, not the man holding the gun." The soldiers ended up refusing the 'eyes right' order and Blamey apparently was lucky to escape alive, but was reminded of the incident when he visited a military hospital to find the soldiers, sitting up nibbling on lettuce and singing "Run, Rabbit, Run". This is the sort of thing that might appeal to Australians, but is probably not as appealing and somewhat 'foreign' to an international audience.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ranger5355
I wonder how many of those Aussies had already spent time in North Africa before coming to the Pacific. Quite a change of pace[:D]


Three divisions from the 2nd AIF fought in the Middle East.




stuman -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (2/10/2011 1:32:47 AM)

quote:

Gallipoli


What a great movie. Very sad I thought.




Fallschirmjager -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (2/10/2011 3:24:55 AM)

My grandfather built hospitals and airfields as part of the US army corps of engineers. He was in Wewak and Hollandia. He says New Guinea looks like it just came out of the stone age. He could not imagine a place more primitive.




berto -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (2/10/2011 9:57:56 AM)

Another excellent account of the PNG (also Solomons) fighting: "Touched with Fire: The Land War in the South Pacific," by Eric M. Bergerud.

http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Fire-Land-South-Pacific/dp/0140246967/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_2

And the companion volume: "Fire In The Sky: The Air War In The South Pacific."

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Sky-Air-South-Pacific/dp/0813338697/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1




KMCCARTHY -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (2/12/2011 12:06:49 PM)

Thanks. I put "Kokoda Front Line" on my Netflix queue.




noguaranteeofsanity -> RE: Buna, Gona, Sanananda (New Guinea 42-43) (2/12/2011 9:59:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KMCCARTHY

Thanks. I put "Kokoda Front Line" on my Netflix queue.


Just in case you are confused, "Kokoda Front Line" is a wartime Cinesound Review newsreel, by Damien Parer and Ken Hall, which was one of the winners of the 1942 Academy Award for best documentary. "Kokoda" on the other hand, is the recent film made about Australian troops fighting on the Kokoda Trail.




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