RE: Civil War 150th (Full Version)

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mytony -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/10/2011 4:09:34 AM)

The avatar with two cats are so lovely.



Capt. Harlock -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/10/2011 5:36:20 AM)

150 Years Ago Today:

After the embarrassment at Kessler's Cross Lanes, Brigadier William Rosecrans had led three brigades of infantry southward from Clarksburg to support the regrouped 7th Ohio regiment. Brigadier John Floyd, though not the smartest of Confederate generals, had known enough to fortify his campsite at Carnifex Ferry. His request for reinforcements from General Wise had been met with as few troops as Wise could manage without angering Robert E. Lee.

At 3:15 in the afternoon, the Union advance made contact. Fighting raged for several hours, with five separate attempts made by the Federals to break the Southern entrenchments. However, marksmanship on both sides was lacking. Rosecrans finally called off the attacks because of darkness. He had lost only 17 men killed and 141 wounded, but had failed to overrun the Confederates in spite of having 5,000 men to Floyd's 2,000. (Confederate losses are uncertain.) Interestingly, the Northern forces included two future Presidents, Rutherford B. Hayes and William McKinley.

Taking stock of his situation, Floyd decided he could not hold where was. Rosecrans's artillery had caused significant damage to his fortifications--and there was nothing to stop a resumption of bombardment the next day. He ordered a retreat that night across the ferry to the south side of the Gauley River, which allowed the Northerners to claim the victory.


[image]local://upfiles/4250/9421347ADFE94A4197E35BD69DEC8A70.jpg[/image]



parusski -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/10/2011 6:39:58 PM)

Interesting skirmish, and it should have been a victory for Billy Yank.

The civil war has lots those facts such as the two future presidents, Rutherford B. Hayes and William McKinley, were in this one battle.



ilovestrategy -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/10/2011 7:43:50 PM)

17 killed to 141 wounded. Yup. Marksmanship was lacking. At least the spambot thinks my avatar with the two cats is lovely! [:D]



bugwar -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/10/2011 8:01:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski
Oh yeah, both were invading forces. As much as the South loved to say they were fighting against Northern aggression they invaded a the North a rather large number of times.


For what it is worth, when attacked by a bully, do you spend your time just blocking his blows,
or do you give him some licks of your own?

Oh, and your nanny isn't around to pull your chestnuts out of the fire.
So you either can fight or are beaten.


[:-]



parusski -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/11/2011 2:30:33 AM)

Thanks Capt. I have read hundreds of civil war books and you are teaching me thinks I have never read(or maybe forgot).



parusski -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/11/2011 2:32:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

17 killed to 141 wounded. Yup. Marksmanship was lacking. At least the spambot thinks my avatar with the two cats is lovely! [:D]


AHAHA, AHAHA, as Eric Cartman would laugh. I too love your cats. I wish the spambot would pick and avatar, maybe something like a pirate photo-Captain Jack Sparrow.



Capt. Harlock -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/12/2011 4:18:04 AM)

150 Years Ago Today:

[image]local://upfiles/4250/0DBE01DC4D0A41BB8187CD74A4806061.gif[/image]
Near the head of the Gauley River at Cheat Mountain was a key position that controlled the traffic on the major turnpike and several mountain passes. It was held by almost 2,000 Union troops under General Joseph Reynolds. The bulk of his men were in a defensive position on the turnpike, with one regiment in a fort at the summit. Against this, General Robert E. Lee brought a force of about 5,000 men, the first time he would command a battle in the Civil War.

[image]local://upfiles/4250/A2519494BCE242F3958FB0C315688555.gif[/image]
Knowing the Federals were well fortified, Lee came up with a fairly complex battle plan which involved coordinated attacks on the Union positions from three directions. But his troops were not as well trained as those he had been accustomed to as an officer in the Mexican-american War. More, the weather was rainy and foggy, and for once the Union troops knew the terrain better than the Confederates. The result was confusion, and the longest-lasting battle yet fought in the Civil War. (In fact, different sources give different dates, but it appears to have gone on for three full days or more.)

The attacks went in without any coordination, and were beaten off. The hoped-for surprise attack on the summit didn't happen at all. Captured Union soldiers convinced Lee that he was outnumbered two to one, when in fact the ratio was opposite or still higher. By September 15, Lee had had enough, and called off any further attacks. Two days later he retreated his force to Valley Mountain. The Federals had lost a total of 88 casualties comprising 10 killed, 14 wounded, and 64 captured, but remained in full possession of Cheat Mountain. Confederate casualties are unkown but the Union commanders claimed 100 enemy soldiers were killed and twenty were captured.

Lee's reputation plummeted after this affair. Though in modern times it is astonishing to read, Southern newspapers at that time were calling him "Granny Lee" and "Evacuating Lee". And the realization began to spread that that part of Virginia was lost to the Confederacy.

The Kanawa Valley is wholly traitorous ... You cannot persuade these people that Virginia can or ever will reconquer the northwest.

-- Brigadier General Henry A. Wise, telegraph to Richmond, September 1861.



ilovestrategy -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/12/2011 5:25:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock


Lee's reputation plummeted after this affair. Though in modern times it is astonishing to read, Southern newspapers at that time were calling him "Granny Lee" and "Evacuating Lee".



That is astonishing to read! [X(]



bugwar -> Double Plus Good Think (9/12/2011 2:20:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy
That is astonishing to read! [X(]


Yep. Hindsight is usually 20/20.

On a related note, Lee's travails just go to show that every public personality needs a good PR department.

With skilled hacks working for him, Lee could have turned the reporting of the battle into a cunning example
of a spoiling attack, designed to keep pressure on the North, while preventing them from aggressive actions
in the near future. Moreover, at little cost in Confederate lives!


[:'(]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Double Plus Good Think (9/12/2011 2:49:10 PM)

No current political discussions please, or this thread will have to be locked.

Regards,

- Erik



bugwar -> RE: Double Plus Good Think (9/12/2011 3:36:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

No current political discussions please, or this thread will have to be locked.

Regards,

- Erik



Okay. Is my post better now?



Erik Rutins -> RE: Double Plus Good Think (9/12/2011 4:05:20 PM)

Perfect, thanks. [8D]



parusski -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/12/2011 5:55:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

LOL. Do you know or think Lincoln said know "that s**t off straightaway". I would like to think he said it that way!


Well, if you go back to my post on Sept. 2, Lincoln did use language much more appropriate to the Victorian era:

"Two points in your proclamation of August 30th give me some anxiety,” was the President's understated beginning. He ordered that Fremont “allow no man to be shot, under the proclamation, without first having my approbation or consent.”

Incidentally, Fremont sent his wife, who was also the daughter of the famous Senator Thomas Hart Benton, to try to convince Lincoln to let the proclamation stand. She was no diplomat, reminding Lincoln that Fremont had more political and military experience than he. Lincoln's language off the record after this little chat might well have been , shall we say, intemperate, but all we know is that this was very likely the final straw in his decision to replace Fremont.


Capt. Harlock, I just re-read my post about Lincolns language and my comment sounded a little nasty. I was being facetious. I never doubted you in your fine work. Now MORE.



Capt. Harlock -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/13/2011 6:03:54 AM)

150 Years Ago Today:


A boat expedition led by Lt. John Henry Russell went into the harbor at Pensacola, Florida, and destroyed the Confederate privateer Judah. There had been shore bombardments and amphibious assault previously, but this can be considered the first vessel-to-vessel naval action of the Civil War.

Sterling Price's army, now numbering about 12,000 men, reached Lexington, Missouri. There Colonel James A. Mulligan had decided to turn the local Masonic college into a fort, and hold with his 3,500 men. Eight companies of Union troops made contact with Price's advance forces among in Machpelah Cemetery south of town, buying time for Mulligan to finish his fortifications. The delaying action was successful (apparently tombstones gave good cover). Price had intended to overwhelm the entire Union force by sudden assault, but the stubborn defense of the cemetery meant the Rebels used up most of their ready ammunition. Combined with the now-complete Union defenses, this made an infantry attack unwise. Price brought up his artillery and began to bombard.



ilovestrategy -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/13/2011 8:53:21 AM)

The Civil War was full of lost opportunities by both sides by not advancing before fortifications could be completed. 



Capt. Harlock -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/14/2011 8:58:35 PM)

150 Years Ago Today:

At Lexington, Missouri, Sterling Price's force had now fully surrounded the Union garrison, and the first genuine siege since Fort Sumter was on. Union theater commander Fremont was well informed of the situation, and was thinking of sending a relief force. But two telegrams arrived from Washington: one from Secretary of War Simon Cameron, the other from General-in-Chief Winfield Scott. Both gave the order:

Detach 5,000 infantry from your department to come here without delay, and report the number of the troops that will be left with you. The President dictates.

At the end of August, Jefferson Davis had promoted five men to full (four-star) General. (The Union's highest formal rank at this point was a two-star Major General.) All he was one of the five, Joseph Johnston was listed as fourth in seniority on the list, and he firmly believed that he should be first. He had composed a highly undiplomatic complaint, waited for two days, and then sent it to Davis. The President now put Johnston in his place:

“I have just received and read your letter of the 12th instant. Its language is, as you say, unusual; its arguments and statements utterly one sided, and its insinuations as unfounded as they are unbecoming.”

The breach between the two would prove to be irreparable, and that would eventually have a major impact on the war.



Capt. Harlock -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/17/2011 4:09:38 PM)

150 Years Ago Today:

Sterling Price continued his siege of Lexington, Missouri, and John Fremont appeared completely confused about what to do. A few Union troops were sent towards Lexington, but not nearly enough. Instead, it was the Confederates who reinforced. David Rice Atchison, a one-time Missouri Senator who had been heavily involved with the "Bleeding Kansas" violence, led a column of 3,500 additional men towards the siege. At Liberty in northern Missouri they encountered a force of 600 Union troops.

Atchison knew the area, and attempted a flanking movement on the Federal right, but was held. The outnumbered Yankees withdrew in good order, taking with them nearly all their wounded and their one cannon, but abandoning their ammunition wagon and a caisson. The Rebels pursued for a short time, but Atchison did not press the attack very far. Instead, he continued across the river to reinforce Price. The Union forces suffered 56 casualties and the Missouri State Guard lost 70, largely because the Northerners' gun had fired two effective rounds of canister shot.



nicwb -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/18/2011 12:08:27 AM)

Its really fascinating to hear about these smaller fights. The big battles are usually well covered but there were obviously numerous smaller confrontations that have passed into obscurity.

Reading about them really makes the war seem that more alive.



Capt. Harlock -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/18/2011 4:58:31 AM)

150 Years Ago Today:

Both houses of the Kentucky legislature having overridden his veto, Governor Magoffin reluctantly did his duty and issued the proclamation abandoning neutrality. The legislature ordered the Union flag to be raised over the state capitol in Frankfort, declaring its allegiance with the Union. The last state was "off the fence".

The Confederacy, however, was far from willing to accept. Plans were made to bring both Missouri and Kentucky into the Southern side by military occupation and legal maneuvering. (Much as the Union was doing with western Virginia.) to execute these plans, President Davis chose Albert Sydney Johnston, one of the five full Generals in the Confederate Army, as theater commander.

[image]local://upfiles/4250/CA884B63F5344AAB933741B7BB180E20.jpg[/image]



ilovestrategy -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/18/2011 9:16:08 PM)

I love reading about all of the political wrangling.



Capt. Harlock -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/20/2011 8:14:55 PM)

150 Years Ago Today:

At Lexington, Missouri, time was already running out for Colonel James Mulligan and his Union garrison of 3,500. There were two wells in the area he had fortified, but both had run dry, and his men were badly short of water.

But Sterling Price was not in a mood to wait. His troops had put together a moveable barricade of hemp bales. Early in the morning, the rebels began pushing their mobile protection towards the Union fortifications. The Yankees fired "hot shot" (heating their cannonballs before loading them), attempting to set the bales on fire. However, the Southerners had wisely soaked the bales in river water against just such a tactic.

Shortly after noon, with the bales close enough to the Union lines for a final rush, Colonel Mulligan requested terms. The entire garrison was surrendered. Nearly all of them were paroled, with no heavier penalty than having to listen to a speech by pro-Confederate Governor Claiborne Jackson, who scolded them for entering "his" state without invitation.

Final casualties were light for a week-long siege. The Northerners lost 39 killed and 120 wounded, while the State Guard had 25 men killed and 72 wounded. But Price and the State Guard now clearly had the momentum in Missouri.



ilovestrategy -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/20/2011 9:49:56 PM)

I had never heard of hot shot. That's a new one for me. I wonder how they got the cannon balls in the barrels while they were hot.



planner 3 -> RE: Civil War 150th (9/20/2011 10:41:11 PM)

The gunners has a shovel shaped loader tool that they used to handled "hot shots", looked somewhat like a narrow concave spade, once in the barrel, it was rammed normally, I suspect they also had a buffer between the powder and shot. [sm=00000959.gif]



bugwar -> Warmest Regards (9/20/2011 11:20:12 PM)

Wikipedia has a nice little section for 'Heated shot'. It mentions some
of the details in dealing with the feature.

[X(]



ilovestrategy -> RE: Warmest Regards (9/20/2011 11:22:45 PM)

Got it. Thanks for the info!



Cyber Me -> RE: Warmest Regards (9/21/2011 4:46:07 AM)

On 18th Sept the Confederates used hot shot as part of their nine hour artillery bombardment hoping to set fire to the masonic college- the central part of the Federal positions and other minor fortifications that the Union had prepared. But Col Mulligan had stationed a youth in the attic who was able to removed each hot round that hit the building before it could be set it ablaze. Other buildings in the defence zone were covered with earthworks.



bugwar -> RE: Warmest Regards (9/21/2011 5:42:32 AM)

Can you imagine how that youth felt?

Here he is, parked at ground zero for every cannon ball the Rebs can throw. Oh, and if he isn’t torn apart by one that hits,
he has to make sure that the shot isn’t going to set the roof on fire. He has to move the red-hot cannon ball from its resting
place to where it can’t do any more damage. Moreover, be quick about it too before the next shell hits.



Cyber Me -> RE: Warmest Regards (9/21/2011 8:40:41 AM)

Two recognized Irish formations fought each other during this battle: Col. Mulligan's Irish Brigade raised mostly in Chicago, and Confederate Col. Kelly's Washington Blues (a regiment) raised in St Louis.

In a friendly fire incident, General Price was using the second floor of the town's courthouse to direct the battle and a Confederate artillery round embedded itself in the same building, though opposite side.

The Confederate booty boasted $960,000 found under Col. Mulligan's tent.



bugwar -> New Found Wealth (9/22/2011 12:51:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyber Me
The Confederate booty boasted $960,000 found under Col. Mulligan's tent.



Okay, I'll bite.
Was that his personal belongings or the troop payroll in 'safe keeping'?

[;)]



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