GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (Full Version)

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2ndACR -> GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 4:10:45 AM)

Okay, starting an AAR for first PBEM of WITE. First off, the AI will teach you bad habits. LOL. As a former (still to a small extent) WITP'er I should know this.

Turn 6 has come and gone, I am so far behind schedule it is not even funny. I see my winter defense forming around the Dneper. I stuck my neck out too far and had to spend a turn rescuing some Panzer Div that got isolated. My opponent is fighting for every inch of ground. And I mean every inch. He has counter attacked every chance. So far, those gave not worked. But it has made me cautious.

I will post screen shots and will see what advice the others can offer.



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 4:13:51 AM)

Okay, here we have the North. I am way, way behind schedule up here. As you can see, I have not even made it to Talinan yet, nor managed to take Pskov. He has formed a line behind the river and those danged swamps.

I have cracked his line on the north side, face a solid line to the east. But I found a hold between the lakes and have shot a panzer Corp thru with a Infantry Corp following. Hopefully I can start rolling his line and make him pull back. We will see.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/9C36913215AF4319BC1270A810FE79E8.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 4:17:21 AM)

And here we have the Central Zone 1 (too big for 1 shot). I have just now gotten to the Dneper River in force. Forcing a crossing will be costly. I am trying to decide if I should force a crossing or stay between the rivers and then turn north and south to start rolling his lines. But also risk what happened earlier and have to spend a turn playing rescue.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/BA9675301D0B4D5AB5C88D7BF5B50590.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 4:19:05 AM)

Here we have Central Zone 2. The damned swamp. He has forced me to go in after him since I have hit a wall everywhere else and cannot risk my flanks. As you can tell, it is slow going and I cannot allow the swamp forces to get ahead of AGS or he will flank me.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/C4FB3A158BB9409CBBAAE1C288F152E5.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 4:22:51 AM)

Southern Zone 1......So far behind schedule as to make me cry. This is where I had to spend 2 turns rescuing my trapped Panzers. But luckily they held on. That time allowed him to build this lovely little line that has level 4 forts in some places. But, the good news is I have broken a nice hole thru his lines and pocketed a nice little group. Next turn, he will have to decide to stand and die or run for the hills or I will sweep in behind him to heavily. Once I kill that pocket, alot of Infantry is coming too.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/80A5003F853F444FACFC9F0E4B41FE3A.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 4:25:56 AM)

And Southern Zone 2. As we can see, he is fighting every step of the way. I might have to rely on my armor north of him to unhinge his lines or risk getting trapped. I dont think I can force the river crossing. It hurt bad enough having to blast a hole in the mountains to form that pocket. Too many Romanians to trust completely with the task.

Overall, Kelblau is doing a great job stalling me. This game is going to be a grind all the way.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/A091695B25A24614B2F4CDCE290FF2FA.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 4:27:03 AM)

And here is Casualty report as of turn 6.

Feel free to comment advice, critique etc.



[image]local://upfiles/9971/33A067F746874D85B1FE00F247D9FEF2.jpg[/image]



blam0 -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 5:20:32 AM)

I'm hardly an expert, but I'd say you want to concentrate your armor and mobile forces a bit more.  Use infantry to punch a hole, and then send your armor through to exploit and encircle. I would not have the lt. blue and green pz groups (I forget which ones they are--sorry) mingled unless they were cordoning off a pocket. Oh, and I avoid AT ALL COSTS running armored divisions through swamps.

Just my .02. I hope it helps!



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 9:32:04 AM)

Okay, turn 7 has been sent. I have got a beach head across the Dnepr River. Progress is finally being made. I think he held a little too long in certain areas and it has allowed me to pocket another group of Div.

Northern Zone 1

I have crossed between the lakes above Pskov with a Panzer Corp and an Infantry Corp. The infantry corp will spread out and cover the Panzer advance. Panzers will start south and see if I can un-hinge his entire line or even pocket them.

I am slowly advancing towards Talanin on the coast. Slow but steady progress. Air bases have jumped forward to support.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/0C948E09B5BD429A9ED0532B65CB6ED2.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 9:34:20 AM)

North Zone 2

Here we are still held at the river. I dislike attacking across rivers so am awaiting the Panzer Corp from the north and if I get lucky I can break the southern Panzer Corp loose to sweep north and roll his entire defense line.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/3BC6AB2EED4E42D6A3CF61FD1CF12B36.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 9:35:51 AM)

Central Zone 1

Here I have blown a small hole in his line which I expect he will plug next turn. If he doesn't, well I will roll up his line moving north and east. Forgot, I have my beach head across the Dneper River and will surge 2 full Panzer Corp across next turn. 1 will head north and roll or pocket his northern river front and the other will head south and do the same. Infantry will cross thru the beachhead or as he retreats.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/D13BEBC2F8584846982D76EDCAB67777.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 9:42:15 AM)

Central Zone 2

Here we see the advance thru the swamp. I suspect he is dug in behind the Dneper, but will not attack him across the river into the swamp. I will hold and use my upper beach head to un-hinge his line unless I find a weak spot when I get there.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/176DE1847B724A248DB7DCB582F94658.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 9:44:11 AM)

South Zone 1

Here we see the hole I have blown thru his line, he has pulled back to his next line. I will clear the pockets and then repeat the process. Once my infantry reach his next line, I will mass my armor, blast a hole and shoot them thru.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/8A8CB062392942C9B4F7990A233C5D2A.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 9:46:46 AM)

Southern Zone 2

I had to enlarge this one or might have to go to 3 zones down here as I spread out. My armor is sweeping south and east. He either has to pull back fast or I will pocket the lot. I have a toe hold with 2 infantry Div across the southern river, so that is my goal. I will expand and pocket what I can.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/3A3ACF72BDD14D3EBE576A83C9145A18.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 9:47:53 AM)

No casualty report this time, I forgot. Roughly, I took 40,000 casualties for the turn blasting my holes. He took 241,000 and lost 1400 AFV.



CarnageINC -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 11:18:57 AM)

First off 2nd is I don't mean to lecture you or give you a book so forgive me if that happens, I don't know what your really doing I'm just observing from the screen shots. [;)]

First thing I see 2nd is your infantry divisions are side by side almost all over the place.  Mostly 6th, 9th, 11th and 16th Army's I would group up more of them where you want to attack and blow open holes in his fortified lines.  Leave a Corps out on the flanks of your attacks and alternate every other hex you have, let your ZOC help you.  If he keeps poking his units between yours, break down your divisions and use regiments to build a solid line.  Most of his forces still will not be able to move those.  I think using a more spread out flank protection but concentrated offense will help you out a lot better.  Try and open up holes 3 hexes wide, your armor will love you for it for not having to pay extra MP's to attack forward.  Not to plug my own AAR, but look at some of the maps in my Redmarkus game to kind of get the feel for what I'm talking about.

The other thing I'm noticing is your Panzer HQ's are way to far behind your lines when your mobile units move, most of them will not be able to give you support units to assist in your attacks.  Sure you must keep them away from gaps but I would have them glued to the backside of your Corps as much as possible when your advancing.  When the fronts stabilized then I would move them back a couple hexes if you decide to have the Panzer's stay on the line.  Not something I would recommend but that's  a commanders choice.

This part is probably what you already know.  What BlamO said is a good thing, bunch up your moblie units 3 stacks high if you don't have a hole blown open yet.  Hasty attack with the whole stack if you can, if you have to use a deliberate attacks against a shallow linear line then I would rethink where your attacking.  That kind of job I leave to the grunts.  Now when you get into a deeper defensive line you'll have no choice.

I'm not an expert yet but I think these things will help you advance a lot more quickly and easily.  Good luck destroying the vile communists! [8D]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 3:16:29 PM)

No problems. I have a single stack line due to almost every double stack of his has a armor or mech div in it. I stretched my line out after I stuck my neck out and then spent those precious turns saving my armor. Little cautious. Same for WITP after I lost 4 CV the first time in a PBEM. LOL

I do mass the infantry stacks when needed and then spread out when needed. But I will look the situation over and try to shake the cautious out.

My armor is a little different. I try not to have to even attack with them if I can. They are my pocket units. But sort of do the same thing as my infantry. Mass and then spread out.

I am a little lax with my HQ's. Think of me as a big slinky. Now that I am finding his 2nd line in the south, my infantry will advance to the line, armor concentrates and HQ's move to the front. I dont advance my HQ's as fast as I should, that is true.

Ive read your AAR. And ComradeP's AAR and Miller's all the others. I accept job critique. Helps me master the game and all that. There are so many different strategies that can be used. Keep coming back.



Klydon -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 3:35:13 PM)

I don't know that you totally look to avoid combat with the panzers for two reasons. First, anytime you win, it is a moral boost to the unit in question. It also helps you keep your better commanders in place because it helps pad their win/loss ratio. If you are playing the latest version, the Germans are safe from changes of command by Hitler, but after Dec 15, that win/loss record will matter a whole lot more.

I don't mean you get them heavily engaged in combat, but knocking off say the fortified zones and/or a weak infantry unit in the open in the way are the types of things I am talking about.



Mynok -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 4:40:26 PM)


I would have just sent 2nd army into the swamps and screened anything he left in there to keep them away from your supply lines. Those OKH-attached reinforcements you get are useful for this.



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 6:30:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I don't know that you totally look to avoid combat with the panzers for two reasons. First, anytime you win, it is a moral boost to the unit in question. It also helps you keep your better commanders in place because it helps pad their win/loss ratio. If you are playing the latest version, the Germans are safe from changes of command by Hitler, but after Dec 15, that win/loss record will matter a whole lot more.

I don't mean you get them heavily engaged in combat, but knocking off say the fortified zones and/or a weak infantry unit in the open in the way are the types of things I am talking about.



I will attack units like you describe, I mis-spoke, I very rarely use them to blast a hole thru a defense line or a strong unit. But lone weak units will get popped.



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 8:47:55 PM)

Turn 8

Small advances in the north and central, nothing major. Focus of action was in the south. I have pocketed 10 div confirmed and a very weak pocket with about 5 more. I am slowly rolling his line up and if he does not withdraw, I will bag another group next turn. I will just take chunks as I get them.

Already starting to mentally plan my winter defense line and it looks like it will be the Dneper River. I really hate the thought of being on the east side of the river though.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/DDF8266EB12D411DA325A5D684458E0B.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 8:48:22 PM)

And casualties as of turn 8

[image]local://upfiles/9971/B01E4C62D8354C70AE4D00F112F49B54.jpg[/image]



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 8:54:38 PM)

And I just this turn noticed I had ground support turned off the entire game.......DOH!!!!!!! I think that was also what was hurting me alot.

It is on now.



Mynok -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 9:29:52 PM)


Yikes! That would certainly make a difference.



Kel -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 10:07:06 PM)

Nice AAR, and I recognize our frontlines and the gallant efforts of our conqueror.

Up to now the Soviet strategy has been both to sacrifice a few lambs ahead of the front and to carefully build what our esteemed german guest calls nice defense lines behind the rivers.

Without giving too many clues to our distinguished invader, I would precise that the major difficulty is to choose the correct ratio of troops sent to the first line of defense vs secondary lines as well as the direction of the reinforcement (do not send too many divisions in the South so that resistance down there is not determined to the point of a formation of a balcony north and east of the pripyat marshes that invites for deep panzer rush southward and the formation of a huge pocket around Kiev). Anyway, we are not yet at this juncture...

For the time being, the two best allies of the soviet soldier are : the shovel (to dig in) and the locomotive (to bring the divisions where they are most needed).

Good Luck 2ndACR !

Kel



notenome -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/20/2011 11:33:52 PM)

I definetly believe you need more concentration of force where you attack and economy of force where you screen, everywhere along the front. Also in the center you have blown three holes in his line, whereas you only need two for an encirclement. Basically screen everything and just concentrate where you plan to advance. Also I would not have sent 4th army to the swamps, its much more valuable helping in the smolensk area.



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/21/2011 12:34:31 AM)

Yikes, I have been invaded!!!

Glad I did not post too much operational info. LOL

Upon reflection, 2nd Army (think that is the one you meant) would have been better used there instead of the swamps. Or are you talking about the dark blue (I cannot keep them straight).

Okay, turn 9 complete. I saved and forgot to grab screen shots.

So, brief over view. I have blown a hole near Pskov and it is now isolated. Another hole below Vitesbsk and armor is now nearing Smolensk. Huge hole at my beach head over the Dneper with armor moving north and south. Infantry also crossing over.

Great big huge hole blown in the south. Armor outside Kiev. 12 Div securely pocketed and another 8 weakly pocketed. I am taking chunks out of his lower southern defense line about 6 hexes at a time and isolating those units. If he does not pull back, he will lose them all. Those six hexes are 6-8 div at a time.

Quick casualty update......Russian at 1.6 million losses and 12,000 armor.



Mynok -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/21/2011 1:50:34 AM)


4th is the dark blue. 2nd the lighter. And I agree with notenome. Never send 4th army in there. It's got too much good stuff. You need it at the front.



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/21/2011 8:20:17 PM)

Nothing really new to report, Mud across almost the entire front except the far south. So did an admin turn.

Pskov did fall along with 3 div and 1 brigade. 2 Pockets in the south eliminated with 6 div, 2 regiments.

1 Pocket was able to go back into supply, but the mud has basically stopped me cold and the big pocket will probably get away.

Central, 1 pocket eliminated with 4 Div falling.

Other than that, nothing to report. I do almost no movement during mud.



2ndACR -> RE: GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau (1/21/2011 11:26:45 PM)

Turn 11

Northern Zone 1

I have captured Talinan and swept along the coast. Finally. Usually here at turn 3-4 against the AI. Heavy defenses near Pskov. So time to mass up and bust thru.

[image]local://upfiles/9971/80E43756F29541109DF1E7B7D49D3271.jpg[/image]



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