Preparing for General Winter in GC (Full Version)

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Krieg -> Preparing for General Winter in GC (1/20/2011 4:14:45 AM)

Was wondering if anyone has tips for the Ger side during the first winter. Specifically looking for:
1) Best disposition of forces after intiital June 41 push and before winter sets in.
-- I pushed to just East of Smolensk (in AGC AOR), Dnieper line in the South, and around Lake Peipus in the North. I have good coverage except for the Pripyat Marshes. My Mobile units are not on the line but in the rear for a possible Counterattack.
2) Is it possible to hold the line against the Soviets during the winter of 1941?
-- At the end of Nov 41 my untis CV are either 1 or 2's for the most part and the Soviets have strong untis on the line. I dont see how to hold them without significant losses and risk them encircleing my forces.
3) Is attacking worth it during the winter months?
-- Based on the CV I have and see on the Soviet side I dont think so but not certain.

Rich



2ndACR -> RE: Preparing for General Winter in GC (1/20/2011 4:36:15 AM)

It will be very, very painful if you don't have level 4 forts all along the line. And if any part of your line is held by your Axis Allies except for mountain troops or the Fins, that is where your largest hole is going to be. They melt in the blizzard by the 2nd or 3rd turn even with level 4 forts. Attacking during Blizzard can be done, but it hurts bad.

Overall, welcome to the German side. And get ready for a long painful winter. LOL



CarnageINC -> RE: Preparing for General Winter in GC (1/20/2011 9:39:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Overall, welcome to the German side. And get ready for a long painful winter. LOL



MWAHAHAHAHAH! Your DOOMED Krieg! DOOMED I SAY![sm=00000622.gif]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Krieg

Was wondering if anyone has tips for the Ger side during the first winter. Specifically looking for:
1) Best disposition of forces after intiital June 41 push and before winter sets in.
-- I pushed to just East of Smolensk (in AGC AOR), Dnieper line in the South, and around Lake Peipus in the North. I have good coverage except for the Pripyat Marshes. My Mobile units are not on the line but in the rear for a possible Counterattack.
2) Is it possible to hold the line against the Soviets during the winter of 1941?
-- At the end of Nov 41 my untis CV are either 1 or 2's for the most part and the Soviets have strong untis on the line. I dont see how to hold them without significant losses and risk them encircleing my forces.
3) Is attacking worth it during the winter months?
-- Based on the CV I have and see on the Soviet side I dont think so but not certain.

Rich




1.There are numerous 'best' dispositions, that sir will have to be up to your opinion. Your mobile units your doing right, I usually throw them back behind the lines when the mud hits. I would dig in once the mud hits and not attack forward in the snow. Its okay to attack in the snow to push off Soviet units next to your units but don't advance from your fortified position!

In my opinion I would use your mobile units as a secondary fire brigade if your in dire straights. Primary fire brigades are my Romanian Mnt. Brigades and my Mnt Infantry divisions. Spread them out behind the southern front to help plug big holes and such.

2. In the north somewhat, the trees and swamp help some, in the south....LOL...NO

3. Waste of your assests attacking in winter, it has to be a super major event for me to attack the first winter. I would to save some divisions but your asking for the AI to flank you probably and you'll end up loosing them due to ZOC costs in the end. 2nd winter knock yourself out.



karonagames -> RE: Preparing for General Winter in GC (1/20/2011 10:18:14 AM)

The important thing to remember is that there are 3 turns of snow in March, in which Axis strength recovers dramatically and lost ground can be recovered. The "benchmarks" for lost ground are:

AGN Historically lost 30-60 miles (3-6 hexes). In game you might lose 6 and take back 2.

AGC Historically lost 100-120 miles (10-12hexes). in game you might lose 9-12 and take back 2-3.

AGS Historically lost 30-60 miles. In game this is the tricky one due to the clear terrain; it really depends on how strong your March counter attack is. Expect to Lose 9-15 hexes and maybe get back 6.



Klydon -> RE: Preparing for General Winter in GC (1/20/2011 2:54:51 PM)

From what I have seen, it is very possible the Soviets could "punch themselves out" with blizzard attacks. Even when they are winning battles, they are taking huge casualties. I have seen a couple mention they suffered 1 million casualties during the winter offensive. This can leave them weak and vulnerable despite their own success. 



Altaris -> RE: Preparing for General Winter in GC (1/20/2011 3:19:20 PM)

I haven't actually played the winter yet, so I could be all wrong in my thoughts. However, it seems to me that if the Axis player pushes his lines as far as possible into Soviet territory, then pulls far back just prior to the blizzard, and keeps the Soviets from regaining any prior to the blizzard setting in, it should be fairly easy to minimize the amount of damage the Soviet armies can inflict. My rationale is that this would accomplish the following as the Soviet pushes forward:
1) It costs more (a lot more with crappy Soviet morale) to push into enemy hexes, regardless of whether they are  held or not. With a light screen of expendable units, this would prove even more so. With enough forward territory that was expendable, I could see this holding up the Soviets 4-6 turns just to get to the fortified lines... that's a big chunk of the winter weather right there. Plus, they won't be in as good of shape by the time they reach it, due to fatigue and morale hits.
2) Supply will become an issue for the Soviets, since their rail lines will be further back from their front.
3) By minimizing combats, you keep the number of Soviet victories to a minimum, and thus minimize Guards units (important for 1942).

Of course none of this accounts for the attrition effects, but those are going to be there regardless.

Anyway, I don't have a lot of experience to speak to this, and could be way off-base, but that's the general impression I've formed from my readings by various players on this subject.



pompack -> RE: Preparing for General Winter in GC (1/20/2011 3:46:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Altaris

I haven't actually played the winter yet, so I could be all wrong in my thoughts. However, it seems to me that if the Axis player pushes his lines as far as possible into Soviet territory, then pulls far back just prior to the blizzard, and keeps the Soviets from regaining any prior to the blizzard setting in, it should be fairly easy to minimize the amount of damage the Soviet armies can inflict. My rationale is that this would accomplish the following as the Soviet pushes forward:
1) It costs more (a lot more with crappy Soviet morale) to push into enemy hexes, regardless of whether they are  held or not. With a light screen of expendable units, this would prove even more so. With enough forward territory that was expendable, I could see this holding up the Soviets 4-6 turns just to get to the fortified lines... that's a big chunk of the winter weather right there. Plus, they won't be in as good of shape by the time they reach it, due to fatigue and morale hits.
2) Supply will become an issue for the Soviets, since their rail lines will be further back from their front.
3) By minimizing combats, you keep the number of Soviet victories to a minimum, and thus minimize Guards units (important for 1942).

Of course none of this accounts for the attrition effects, but those are going to be there regardless.

Anyway, I don't have a lot of experience to speak to this, and could be way off-base, but that's the general impression I've formed from my readings by various players on this subject.


Right or wrong, I tend to agree here. I build a line four to six hexes back but keep a screen of regiments on the forward line. I repair the key railroads between the line and the actual front in order to give the screen a chance to use rail to break contact once the blizzard starts. Between the screen and just the disorganization of moving forward, with a little luck it is January before there is a major attack on the fortified line.



Bentley264 -> RE: Preparing for General Winter in GC (1/24/2011 7:59:35 PM)

The fall back idea makes alot of sense, in the South because of open terrain rapidly captured by the Panzers, and in the North because of defendible terrain.  (except ice freezes rivers and swamps)  Any unit in an urban (all 3 units) or a city hex (2 units) will also avoid the first winter penalty.
"

Axis units located in town, city and urban hexes can mitigate the first winter rules regarding damaged ground elements and morale losses to some extent. Any units in an urban hex will not suffer damage to their ground elements or morale losses during the logistics phase. In a city hex, the two units with the highest CV’s will not be impacted. In a town hex, one unit with the highest CV is eligible to avoid the penalty, but only if die(4) is less than or equal to the population value of the town. "

Urban hexes look like great parking places for motorized units.




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