Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (Full Version)

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Tacit_Exit -> Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/23/2011 7:34:25 AM)

Not me so far, though I haven't seen them 'transition' yet, they seemed to be taking their sweet time.

I wonder if its a good idea to have them play possum for so long, leaving the player to decide whether to allow them to become a menace or not, since we will all know what the 'refugees' are all about after the first long game of RotS?

Had a thought they should start with the planet destroyer weapon as a tech. to up the scary factor.

So for those who've seen them in full flight, do they kick-ass? And did you 'allow' them to get to kick-ass stage or did they power-up too quickly to be an early pushover?



Kayoz -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/23/2011 11:42:42 AM)

Easy peasy. Splat them when they show up, and they're no problem.



currierm -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/23/2011 5:59:58 PM)

They showed up pretty early in my last game (with their homeworld in one of my systems) and had a significant tech edge on me. They were duking it out with the Ancient Guardians and it was a fairly even fight, so I jumped in to turn the tide. Then the Ancient Guardians made peace and left me fighting them alone. That was a bit tough- ultimately had to make peace with them and wait until I could build a whole bunch of battlecruisers. With their tech edge their destroyers were mighty tough and their cruisers could take down two of mine. By the time I built up they had something like 10-12 colonies. Took me a good long while to roll them back as they kept building new colonies at a fairly rapid rate. Their ships are very fast and they'll hit you where you're weak with a lot of firepower, take a planet or two, and then jump back out again. They also get 1 billion pop when they colonize a new world. But they have weaknesses (see AI homeworld thread) and start the game with relatively few ground troops.

All in all, they can be dangerous. I design my own ships and had a good economy or it would have been very challenging (instead of merely tough). Catching them early will make things a lot easier- although it borders on an exploit. If you let them slightly out of the bottle expect a challenge. If they start taking over other AI empires- look out!



Raap -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/23/2011 6:40:30 PM)

Haven't really found them difficult thus far myself. I did get a little concerned when they turned into the Shakturi and their 5'ish or so planet destroyers showed up and their firepower went from 40k to 200k+( all other empires had like 25-30k), but as I had like 300k myself it turned out to be a rather quick and easy fight.



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/23/2011 6:50:34 PM)

Also remember that a lot depends on your game settings
at start-up concerning the galaxy environment. Is the
galaxy inhabitants just 'restless' or 'unstable'. Do they
have 'agreeable' homeworld settings? Are they 'expanding'
or 'old'? A lot rides on these settings with and without
the storyline. Just a comment! [:)]



Data -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/23/2011 7:59:10 PM)

damn, ehsumrell1, don't tease....the spoiler warning is at the door, once you're in you can spill your guts [:)]



Tavior -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/23/2011 9:29:06 PM)

Right now in my Dhayut Nest game, I am having so much fun building a peace empire with everyone on trading terms and begging for Mutual Defensive Agreements. Including both Ancient Guardian and Shakturi. The big reason is my empire right now without trade would die out easily.

Dhayut Nest Empire:
-100k Income minus maintenance fee
+57k Space Port Income
+246k Foreign Trade *Including two rare resource*
+15k Resort Base

Technology-wise I can competition with Shakturi but the biggest problem is Shakturi at this point has roughly 30 colonies which will be difficult to conquest with only brute force. So I am rely a little on spies to slow them down and give other empires a fighting chance.



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/24/2011 1:24:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

damn, ehsumrell1, don't tease....the spoiler warning is at the door, once you're in you can spill your guts [:)]


Oopps............... [:D]



Dejavuproned -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/24/2011 5:18:26 AM)

I have to say in my first (and so far only) game of the expansion which I essentially just completed, they surprised me quite a bit. I really didn't know exactly what to expect, I discarded the refugees thing as just another random event, and they spawned so far from my empire that it was an out of sight and out of mind thing.. at first.

First I noticed their empire government "way of darkness" yes, I remember those types always being trouble in the original game. What I didn't expect was for them to expand at alarming speed, and immediately out tech everyone in the galaxy including myself, it wasn't long before they built a empire that competed in size to the other 2 or 3 major empires (one being mine of course) and dwarfed all of us in economy size and firepower. Yeah then I got worried, the worst part was they were still far enough away that I couldn't realistically mount an early offensive, and with their tech advantage they quickly had me on the defensive without even declaring war yet, quick hit and runs with powerful ships on less defended sectors had me reeling, but unwilling to go to war, I had other wars I was already dealing with and as democracy didn't need to go to all out war with an at that point fairly more powerful empire then my own.

When the "join us" came from the ancients I was more then happy to accept, though the "advanced fleet" they give you is a bit of a joke (at least I could retrofit them to my own designs, lol) it was nice to have the stability and freinds backing me (though practically useless outside the ancients).

I have to say, though, they made an enemy I definitely could hate! I can understand attacking and taking colonies, heck I would (and do) the same thing in a war. But when a fleet warps into one of my less defended colonies and reduces a perfectly good colony into a barren wasteland that can never support a colony again (or a planet killer just blows the planet up instead) "ITS ON". Ok so I didnt really lead a rebellious onslaught to wipe them out, but with motivation and a stronger economy, I quickly closed the gap in tech and firepower and slowly started taking colony by colony and pushing them back.

But in the end, I won by simply warping in and taking their homeworld. Honest to god I had no idea that would win me the game, I just was doing it as a middle finger to them glassing my colonies, I didnt even think I would take it or even hold it once I had it. But I did and then the "You win" screen came up, I was just a little surprised :P

But after now, yeah they probably wouldn't catch me as off guard as they did.



Kayoz -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/24/2011 6:57:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dejavuproned

... But when a fleet warps into one of my less defended colonies and reduces a perfectly good colony into a barren wasteland that can never support a colony again (or a planet killer just blows the planet up instead) "ITS ON".


I haven't seen the AI do much bombardment - but in the one or two situations they did it, the planet quality seemed to recover over time. Assuming it isn't reduced to an asteroid field (ie: planet-killer) - is planet quality reduction from bombardment supposed to be permanent?



Tacit_Exit -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/24/2011 7:21:21 AM)

Wow, after reading these replies I realise I've been quite lucky, the refugees in my games have turned up when I had colonised the whole Galaxy and closing on full tech tree.

When I suggested they should start with Planet Destroyers I didn't realise they already did!

@ehsumrell 1: from your hinting I suspect the refugee appearance may be based on average galaxy progression rather than just player progress? Possibly with an absolute time factor also meaning weak starting economy leads to lower progress when refugees appear?

I've been starting with all players starting tech./lowest expansion and best quality home systems. Maybe I need to up the difficulty by slowing the economy and upping the AI players progression to get the refugees to appear when I'm not in a position to just 'choose' to wipe them out or not.



Kayoz -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/24/2011 7:30:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tacit_Exit

When I suggested they should start with Planet Destroyers I didn't realise they already did!


They do?!?

When they showed up in my game, they had little more than their super-duper planet and a couple of cruisers. I rolled in with 100-odd ships and 2 moons, and took their pretty HW with ease. Perhaps their starting force is quite random?



Raap -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/24/2011 12:43:04 PM)

It's not a starting force. They don't get it until they reveal themselves as the Shakturi. Like I said, in my game they went from 40K firepower to 200K++.

Personally I wouldn't mind if they got an even larger fleet though. Most of that firepower was really just the 5 or so planet destroyers, since each of them have like 30k firepower alone. But they're pretty useless when it comes to fighting ships.



Spacecadet -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/24/2011 2:40:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dejavuproned

... But when a fleet warps into one of my less defended colonies and reduces a perfectly good colony into a barren wasteland that can never support a colony again (or a planet killer just blows the planet up instead) "ITS ON".


I haven't seen the AI do much bombardment - but in the one or two situations they did it, the planet quality seemed to recover over time. Assuming it isn't reduced to an asteroid field (ie: planet-killer) - is planet quality reduction from bombardment supposed to be permanent?


Planet quality is supposed to recover over time after bombardment damage.


Insectoid Races will generally have a positive relationship with the Shakturi. If you pay attention to the Galactic History through discoveries you'll see that these races had joined with the Shakturi in the first encounter.

Actually, I believe one Victory scenario is an Alliance with the Shakturi against the Guardians.
I've never played this one out though, so one of the other testers will have to confirm this.


I believe there are/were three factors in determining when the Shakturi show up - Time, Tech, and Colonization.
Time was 20 years earliest and 100 years latest, the other two I don't know about it, but I think Elliot has been tweaking them with the latest patches.


When the Shakturi first show up, they should have a couple Capital ships, a few Cruisers, and a handful of Destroyers/Frigates. They don't get the Deathstars until they reveal themselves.







Larsenex -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/24/2011 6:05:44 PM)

Do the Shakturi show up in a Sand-box game with both DW and RotS unchecked?



J HG T -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/24/2011 6:37:50 PM)

Shakturis only appear when you have RotS storyline checked. With original DW storyline the only Shakturis you'll see are the derelict vessels scattered around the galaxy.  



Lord_Astraios -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/25/2011 1:26:18 AM)

Is there a way to push them out of the hole sooner?  I want them making a mess to my enemies too.  The last game i had,  now im playing another game,  bigger this time,  but my last game that i was in it almost 100 years in the making,  say 92 years if im not mistaken,  and no sign of them,  is like,  come on!!!And i have the game in Sand Box mode and With the stories checked,  marked. 



cmdrnarrain -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/25/2011 3:57:49 PM)

Shakturi

I really wish the refugee's would show as far as way possible.  They always seem to show up right next to me.  I'm more afraid of infiltration then of their fleet because once a war starts all of those worlds with Shakturi population will rebel.

It is really hard to want to let them live when they are so close and it is so easy for him to passively establish Shakturi populations on all of my near by planets.

I really wish this would only occur by agreement aka like a Trade Agreement instead of automatically or at least some way getting rid of the aliens as their are a number of fast breeders which will take over entire worlds with nothing you can do it about it.  

Also, it is far to easy to buy off the refugee's.  They have declared war on me close to 20 times and each time I have stopped the war for just a 300k bribe before it starts.



Tavior -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/25/2011 4:24:28 PM)

Actually it is much easier than you think cmdrnarrain. Right Now I have a 88 colonies on a 500 galaxy solar system. Dhayut trading empire having a friendly relationship with everyone even the Ancient Guardian, Alliance of NPCs *didn't joined* against Shakturi, and lastly Shakturi themselves. It really bring in the money.



cmdrnarrain -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/25/2011 5:39:33 PM)

Tavior,

Sorry, not sure about what you are referring too?



Tavior -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/26/2011 4:01:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

Tavior,

Sorry, not sure about what you are referring too?


The comment above is a current game where I had to go all trader route due to huge maintenance fee and slow population growth. So I was talking about one way to get ready to go to war with Shakturi by having them spread out their fleet among AI empires then preposition your fleets within the trading route and crush their space port before breaking off trade relationships.

I did that against an AI empire without taking the homeworld which was devastating because they had nothing to rebuild ships. Short of constructor/colony ships.

See the picture now?



cmdrnarrain -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/26/2011 5:41:10 PM)

I'm still not sure how this will prevent them from establishing Shakturi populations on my near by planets but I agree their are multiple ways to skin a cat.   Destroying their economy is certainly one of them.



Lord_Astraios -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/26/2011 9:09:47 PM)

2788.03.16 Im in the middle of the 2 wars and i have now some refugees that settled in one of my systems,  i never seen them coming.  And i think is them,  so,  i guess the ancients and this guys,  right within my systems,  will start a bar fight.  Finally,  i was wondering if my game was unique.



Data -> RE: Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Shakturi? (SPOILER) (1/26/2011 9:13:19 PM)

what a relief, pfew [:)]
save and have fun in all manners with them [:D]



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