Future of the series (Full Version)

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HectorOfTroy -> Future of the series (1/27/2011 12:52:16 PM)

Just wondering what are the plans of Code Force in relation to DW.

Morfe expansions? Sequels?

What do you guys think?



Data -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 1:25:26 PM)

i think for the momment the trend is good enough so that all these options are on the table....but i think patches will be in the near future the spearhead
expansions, and even more so for sequels, take more time
but one way or the other, we'll still have bug fixing and new features



J HG T -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 2:41:12 PM)

From what I know of todays games in general, I would guess that there could be 1-3 more expansions and patches to fix bugs/exploits and tweak some big balance issues.
I hope that next expansion is geared towards diplomacy, espionace and civil sector of the game. Good deal of new diplomacy options would add a whole new dimension to the game.



WoodMan -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 3:09:48 PM)

I personally hope for at least another 2 expansions and plenty more patches in Eliotts style which have in the past made quite significant changes to the game.  I don't want a sequel for a few years, I think it would be pointless as everything that needs to be in a sequel could in fact be put into DW, with the exception of 3D which I am strongly against anyway [:D]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 3:14:59 PM)

Hi guys,

Right now we are working on updates as well as something else special. We definitely have another expansion planned after this one, beyond that I can't really discuss yet.

Regards,

- Erik



Raap -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 3:30:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

I personally hope for at least another 2 expansions and plenty more patches in Eliotts style which have in the past made quite significant changes to the game.  I don't want a sequel for a few years, I think it would be pointless as everything that needs to be in a sequel could in fact be put into DW, with the exception of 3D which I am strongly against anyway [:D]

Well, the good thing about sequels as opposed to expansions is that you don't limit your market to your existing customer base. I agree of course, they shouldn't bother with 3D since that would basically mean rebuilding the game from scratch. But hardware acceleration for improved performance, opening up the game to modders to increase replayability, a few major additions to the feature set, etc. All of this could be done with a sequel, but is probably too much work for just an expansion.



WoodMan -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 4:09:48 PM)

I like sci-fi and fantasy settings in equal measure, tbh I wouldn't mind after DW Eliott trying his hand at a fantasy setting before making a DW sequel.  Something along the lines of Dominions 3, but better [:D] and with the DW style Real-Time, but very slow approach.



Data -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 4:26:10 PM)

i suspect by the time we finish on this thread Elliot will need to live 500 years and complete 10 different projects with expansions and patches for all of them [:)]
not to say that i don't encourage this, mind you, quite the contrary [:D]



Shark7 -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 4:53:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

i suspect by the time we finish on this thread Elliot will need to live 500 years and complete 10 different projects with expansions and patches for all of them [:)]
not to say that i don't encourage this, mind you, quite the contrary [:D]


Why only 500 years? Go for 970 and get the record. [:'(]



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 5:29:28 PM)

This game has at least 2 expansion left in it and then DW2 in full 3D,I suspect.



nammafia -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 5:56:15 PM)

Something else special = full blown ground combat ?

Well, one can wish?

I wish to have closer zoom in to the ship/fighter to see the details and following camera to view the combat from the ship/fighter perspective (maybe first person). Something I have always wish for.

On the other hand, I would like to have RPG elements in the game such as leaders, governors, commanders, admirals, pirates with stories, levels and special equipments. This will make the living galaxy even more colorful, dynamics and specials. I will forgo all my other wishes for this element in future full expansions or paid mini expansions. Erik, please "make it so".



Abraxis -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 6:56:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

...then DW2 in full 3D,I suspect.


I sure hope not, IMO gameplay > graphics. All those system resources and developer resources dedicated to rendering and creating fancy eye catching 3D ships could be better spent adding even more depth and engaging game concepts.




Shark7 -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 7:35:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Abraxis

quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

...then DW2 in full 3D,I suspect.


I sure hope not, IMO gameplay > graphics. All those system resources and developer resources dedicated to rendering and creating fancy eye catching 3D ships could be better spent adding even more depth and engaging game concepts.




+1 I love DW as it is, with the simple 2D graphics, the game looks good as is, and plays better.

IMHO, going 3D would only take away from the game, as more resources would have to be dedicated to the render engine, and that would take away from the actual gameplay engine. 3D is not necessary for the game to rock.



Marshall Thomas -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 8:38:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

Right now we are working on updates as well as something else special. We definitely have another expansion planned after this one, beyond that I can't really discuss yet.

Regards,

- Erik

I wonder if "something else special" is something in addition to another expansion. If it's neither a patch nor an expansion, then what could it be? Certainly has grabbed my curiousity.



Data -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 10:02:41 PM)

whatever it is, me like it [sm=happy0065.gif]



Shark7 -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 10:10:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Thomas


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

Right now we are working on updates as well as something else special. We definitely have another expansion planned after this one, beyond that I can't really discuss yet.

Regards,

- Erik

I wonder if "something else special" is something in addition to another expansion. If it's neither a patch nor an expansion, then what could it be? Certainly has grabbed my curiousity.



I wonder if the something special is the increased modability we've been asking for?



Raap -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 10:48:34 PM)

DLC? Hope not.



Shark7 -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 11:09:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raap

DLC? Hope not.


LOL, Matrix games are all DLC... [;)]



Webbco -> RE: Future of the series (1/27/2011 11:09:45 PM)

I've got on my soapbox about this one before, but to expand ground combat would be an original(ish) and great way to expand this series. Going 3D probably would require a much bigger team, but if the gameplay elements continue to be as good as they are, DW in 3D would add lots to immersion/role play!



Raap -> RE: Future of the series (1/28/2011 12:04:54 AM)

Not so sure about ground combat really. Other games have tried it, but without any real success. Imperium Galactica 2 and Space Empires 5 both tried, but none of them really turned out fun in that department. It always ends up as some poor-quality 'mini-game' which is interesting the first couple of times, but then either gets tedious, or in the case of automation option, doesn't get used.

Personally I think there's still *tons* of things they could add to the actual space game itself, and that's what I would like to see them spend time on. To really try to make the 'ultimate' 4x in space, once and for all. Because this is the only not-dead 4x series which I think has the potential for it. SotS, GalCiv, StarRuler, etc., none of those have the ambition or foundation for it like this game does.



Simulation01 -> RE: Future of the series (1/28/2011 12:27:17 AM)

I completely support moving to 3D in DW2.  I love DW as it stands and I do prefer depth over the eye candy of 3D, but I suspect that many of the depth requests will be handled in DW and it's patches/expansions and so the only thing left would be to kick it up a notch into 3D.



Raap -> RE: Future of the series (1/28/2011 12:35:07 AM)

It's far from that simple. You'd have to remake entire layers of the game, re-implement features, etc. You could quickly end up with a game that had far less depth, but would actually be far more expensive to make and not even look great because it was poor quality 3D( which is what you get if you don't put crazy amount of cash and work into it). So no thanks, no 3D for me. Nicer 2D art? Sure, but that's the extent of the graphical changes I'd want. And you can never have too much depth, there will *always* be features you can add, AI you can improve, game mechanics that can be changed for the better, etc.

And again, history-wise I've never seen a single game series improve when deciding to go 3D to 'appeal to a wider audience'. The vast majority of them have gotten worse, while precious few have managed to stay at about the same level.



Simulation01 -> RE: Future of the series (1/28/2011 12:43:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raap

It's far from that simple. You'd have to remake entire layers of the game, re-implement features, etc. You could quickly end up with a game that had far less depth, but would actually be far more expensive to make and not even look great because it was poor quality 3D( which is what you get if you don't put crazy amount of cash and work into it). So no thanks, no 3D for me. Nicer 2D art? Sure, but that's the extent of the graphical changes I'd want. And you can never have too much depth, there will *always* be features you can add, AI you can improve, game mechanics that can be changed for the better, etc.

And again, history-wise I've never seen a single game series improve when deciding to go 3D to 'appeal to a wider audience'. The vast majority of them have gotten worse, while precious few have managed to stay at about the same level.



I'm not arguing that making the awesome depth of DW into an awesome 3D DW2 with depth would be easy or cheap.....I'm saying that it is what I support and want...eventually. My job is not making the 3D version....my job as a consumer is to tell the creators of DW that that is what I want. I would be negligent if I did otherwise.



Abraxis -> RE: Future of the series (1/28/2011 12:57:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulation01
I'm not arguing that making the awesome depth of DW into an awesome 3D DW2 with depth would be easy or cheap.....I'm saying that it is what I support and want...eventually. My job is not making the 3D version....my job as a consumer is to tell the creators of DW that that is what I want. I would be negligent if I did otherwise.


Well, you have to realize that resources are always finite, if the developers decide to switch to 3D, that means hiring a whole new team, buying graphics design software (not cheap), paying for more office space. Alternatively they can use those resources to focus on all the things that make DW stand out from the thousands of other strategy titles out there.

You could only excel at both if money were not an issue. Money is always an issue.



caerr -> RE: Future of the series (1/28/2011 1:04:06 AM)

You don't necessarily need to move to 3D to have more depth, you can have stuff like dynamic lighting and shadows with 2D too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AwJb0lz5nk&feature=related

Of course this kind of technique requires the models to be in 3D for the purpose of generating normal mapping, but I think the ship models were originally 3D to begin with.

Edit: read too hastly, thought you meant visual depth. [:'(]



Simulation01 -> RE: Future of the series (1/28/2011 1:27:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Abraxis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulation01
I'm not arguing that making the awesome depth of DW into an awesome 3D DW2 with depth would be easy or cheap.....I'm saying that it is what I support and want...eventually. My job is not making the 3D version....my job as a consumer is to tell the creators of DW that that is what I want. I would be negligent if I did otherwise.


Well, you have to realize that resources are always finite, if the developers decide to switch to 3D, that means hiring a whole new team, buying graphics design software (not cheap), paying for more office space. Alternatively they can use those resources to focus on all the things that make DW stand out from the thousands of other strategy titles out there.

You could only excel at both if money were not an issue. Money is always an issue.



I'm not talking about moving to 3D in the next patch or expansion....I'm talking about moving to 3D in the next imagining of this game.



Abraxis -> RE: Future of the series (1/28/2011 1:52:00 AM)

Well, whether it's a new game or an expansion, I still think they should stick to their current design philosophy rather than shifting resources towards improved 3D graphics.  The industry is saturated with developers who prioritize graphics, Codeforge has craved out a great spot among the few developers who focus their resources on gameplay.

They should stick to what they're clearly best at I think.



Raap -> RE: Future of the series (1/28/2011 2:12:43 AM)

Yah, that's what I'm thinking too. Personally I don't even get why people would want 3D in a game such as this. I mean, there's nothing to be gained from it. You'll still be playing top-down so that you can actually see what's going on, and the 3D graphics wouldn't be 'awesome' enough to make you zoom in and stare in amazement at them. And even if they spent all their time on making the graphics that awesome, such notions wear off after a few minutes and then you're back to just playing it like you would in 2D again. You'd also have a far smaller ship selection and much more work for mod creation, since creating models and textures is far more work than creating a sprite. So a lot of extra work for basically no real gain and quite possibly missing out on things they didn't have time to re-implement. Not to mention making the game more hardware-demanding.

So yeah, let's just have them focus on what they're good at and what makes the game as great as it is.



Simulation01 -> RE: Future of the series (1/28/2011 2:36:22 AM)

I didn't realize 3D had become passe.



Shark7 -> RE: Future of the series (1/28/2011 2:53:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: caerr

You don't necessarily need to move to 3D to have more depth, you can have stuff like dynamic lighting and shadows with 2D too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AwJb0lz5nk&feature=related

Of course this kind of technique requires the models to be in 3D for the purpose of generating normal mapping, but I think the ship models were originally 3D to begin with.

Edit: read too hastly, thought you meant visual depth. [:'(]



The shipset I made was in 3d, rendered in a 3Dengine with lighting, and if you look closely, you will note there are shadows in the .pngs though obviously they are not dynamic. I'm sure it could be done (even if using different .pngs with various angles of shadows) that it could be done.



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