Siberians (Full Version)

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ool -> Siberians (1/30/2011 11:39:55 PM)

I'm at turn 22 in my practise game and being mid November I would be expecting to see the Siberian troops starting to arrive. However all I see are untrained units arriving as per the usual influx. Historically the counter attack started beginning of December. So the Siberians should be coming in by now to be moved for the coming attack. I hope this kludge that I'm getting now isn't what passes for Siberian reinforcements? The Siberian units were well equipped, fully trained and with good morale. Can one of the testers or developers tell me if what I am receiving now is what is supposed to pass for Siberians or are they coming in later?



2ndACR -> RE: Siberians (1/30/2011 11:54:29 PM)

Nope, wait until 2nd week of Dec, turn 25-26 and then you will feel the might of their arrival. Then all I can say is hold on tight and I hope you dug in tight and deep.



Joel Billings -> RE: Siberians (1/30/2011 11:58:01 PM)

They're in there. IIRC they start arriving as early as October, but I'm confident that Pavel has the correct units in the reinforcement list.



ool -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 12:02:24 AM)

Thanks for the info but even though my avatar is Estonian Waffen SS play exclusively Soviet. Like the challenge of surviving as the underdog. I do though like your comment about being dug in well, couldn't of said it better myself. can't wait to "play" with my new troops when they arrive! Unleash the hounds!!!!![:D][:D][:D]



ool -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 12:04:06 AM)

Thanks Joel. Just wanted to thank you and all associated with this Godzilla sized undertaking. IT ROCKS!!!!



bwheatley -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 1:50:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ool

Thanks for the info but even though my avatar is Estonian Waffen SS play exclusively Soviet. Like the challenge of surviving as the underdog. I do though like your comment about being dug in well, couldn't of said it better myself. can't wait to "play" with my new troops when they arrive! Unleash the hounds!!!!![:D][:D][:D]



The underdog in this game is the germans.



randallw -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 5:21:45 AM)

You may be a little disappointed in the Siberians; the divisions aren't the size of the beginning-war TOE, and their experience levels are a little lower than I hoped.



ool -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 10:10:26 AM)

Not in the first two years. After that you are right. So I usually limit myself to the point where the tide turns irreversibly into the Soviets favour then i stop playing. No fun after that.



HHI -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 1:19:24 PM)

They do not come in 'en mass' as I would have expected. They come in all over the place as reinforcements and are not particularly powerful. In retrospect, I should have gone to a reference and found out what armies were represented, then grouped them together. In my opinion, they should arrive as a group in the vicinity of Moscow.

But not to worry if you are playing against the A/I. After the first scripted turn, the A/I appears to be a combination of 'Drang nach Osten' and 'kick 'em where they ain't'. In particular, it is difficult to extend the Soviet flanks to the south at Leningrad and to the north at Moscow until you get relief with the first mud turn. The same thing applies to the Southern Ukraine, of course, but not as dangerous. However, they really pay the price for this strategy during the blizzard. In my first game, almost complete, Axis casualties were over 2 million at the end of the blizzard. The infantry cannot recover. In 1942, the only real problem is the Luftwaffe. By mid 1943, you won't believe how powerful a Guards Rifle Corps can get. I think I have some around 30 or so.



amatteucci -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 2:09:04 PM)

Perhaps the problem lies in the fact that the role of "siberian" divisions in the defence of Moscow got too much hype in the past... so our expectation are too high! ;)

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/Myth-Busters/Mythbusters3.html



HHI -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 3:09:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: amatteucci

Perhaps the problem lies in the fact that the role of "siberian" divisions in the defence of Moscow got too much hype in the past... so our expectation are too high! ;)

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/Myth-Busters/Mythbusters3.html

That is a good point. For example, one of the major blows during Typhoon occurred when a unit from the Kharkov T-34 school struck 4th Panzer during the advance in the flank and virually destroyed it. There are probably numerous examples of such not involving the Siberians at all. Still, the Siberians represented a reasonably well equipped and well trained grouping, obviously adequately equipped for severe winter conditions. They may be the straw, but the camels back was definitely broken.



ool -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 3:13:06 PM)

All I care about is that they arrive ready to go. God I'm tired of these cadre units that have nothing but over eager farm boys ready for "glory". Overall they are as useless as tits on a bull for a month. It will be a refreshing change to get right at it.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 3:38:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ool

All I care about is that they arrive ready to go. God I'm tired of these cadre units that have nothing but over eager farm boys ready for "glory". Overall they are as useless as tits on a bull for a month. It will be a refreshing change to get right at it.


If you don't want them, give them to me. I have lots of vodka and accordions [8D]



HHI -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 3:49:34 PM)

I just reread Glantz's section on the Moscow counter-offensive from "When Titans Clashed." The Siberians are never even mentioned. The primary Armies involved are the four shock armies, 1-4.



Bearcat2 -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 7:30:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HHI

I just reread Glantz's section on the Moscow counter-offensive from "When Titans Clashed." The Siberians are never even mentioned. The primary Armies involved are the four shock armies, 1-4.



They were instrumental in stopping the German advance on Moscow; about a third of the casualties in the Moscow sector in oct/nov were from Siberian divisions[includes Transbaikalian divisions]. .
As an example, in Oct; the 60th tank, 65th & 92nd rifle fought around Tikhvin against the XXXIX corp.



Helpless -> RE: Siberians (1/31/2011 11:09:15 PM)

quote:

Perhaps the problem lies in the fact that the role of "siberian" divisions in the defence of Moscow got too much hype in the past... so our expectation are too high! ;)


Something like this.

In fact many "Siberian" units where not form Siberia. Not everything past Urals is Siberia.

The difference between just mobilized divisions and those coming from eastern districts is that last ones are not empty and can be used much sooner.



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