USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (Full Version)

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Tullius -> USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/1/2011 9:23:20 AM)

Does the torpedoes failures also effect the S-class in the game ? In RL they used the old Mark 10 torpedo which had not the problems like the newer Mark 14.



LoBaron -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/1/2011 10:04:23 AM)

Thats why the S-boats are not affected in game. Expect them to score.



Sardaukar -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/1/2011 11:05:42 AM)

Mk 10 torpedoes are reliable, Mk 14 not.



castor troy -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/1/2011 11:52:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tullius

Does the torpedoes failures also effect the S-class in the game ? In RL they used the old Mark 10 torpedo which had not the problems like the newer Mark 14.



10 or 20% dud rate for the MK-10, canīt remember what it was. 80% for the MK-14 early war.



John Lansford -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/1/2011 12:52:12 PM)

Three S-boats sank Kaga in my CG around mid-'42.  Those old Mk-10's work just fine!



Brady -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/1/2011 3:52:26 PM)

S-boats are Uber in game.



TSCofield -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/1/2011 7:19:55 PM)

I wouldn't call them uber. Small, low torpedo load and no range but they did hit what they shot at. They remind me of the subs around the DEI at the beginning of the war. They can be effective but they need to be used properly.



crsutton -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/1/2011 7:37:03 PM)

My S boats got some hits but for the most part they have not been dramatic killers in my game. Bout what I would expect. The MK10 torpedo does not carry as much punch either. Still, nice to have them in 42.



Nikademus -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/1/2011 7:47:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimHq Tom Cofield

I wouldn't call them uber. Small, low torpedo load and no range but they did hit what they shot at. They remind me of the subs around the DEI at the beginning of the war. They can be effective but they need to be used properly.


They are much more capable than in real life due mainly to their age and overall condition. The game differentiates the sub classes primarily by dive depth rating and naturally the S's have the worst rating of the USN boats but otherwise, they function as good as a fleet boat and tend to "be" more effective because they have torpedoes that work. I suppose a temporary measure to "sim" this would be to add about 10-20% to the S boats in the PI's at start but this can be quickly repaired quickly.

And no....i'm not inviting the inevitable reaction comparing Iboats to Allied subs and how they are represented. I'm just commenting based on readings mainly derived from Blair's Silent Victory which described the somewhat decrepid condition of the old Sboats in 41. There's a reason they were relegated to less critical theaters besides range.



brian800000 -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/1/2011 9:32:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

There's a reason they were relegated to less critical theaters besides range.


The only reason they are superior in game is because they have torpedoes that work. If you didn't realize that fact, putting them in less critical theaters is a no brainer.



Nikademus -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/1/2011 9:50:28 PM)

i realize that they have better working torpedoes and work as perfectly modern submarines in the game. That makes using them in important Theaters in the game (range permitting) a valid tactic.




witp1951 -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/2/2011 3:27:17 AM)

S-44 sank the cruiser Kako on Aug 10, 1942 off Kavieng with a Mark 10.

Edit: actually it was a four torpedo spread and they all reportedly exploded.



Mac Linehan -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/2/2011 6:15:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimHq Tom Cofield

I wouldn't call them uber. Small, low torpedo load and no range but they did hit what they shot at. They remind me of the subs around the DEI at the beginning of the war. They can be effective but they need to be used properly.


They are much more capable than in real life due mainly to their age and overall condition. The game differentiates the sub classes primarily by dive depth rating and naturally the S's have the worst rating of the USN boats but otherwise, they function as good as a fleet boat and tend to "be" more effective because they have torpedoes that work. I suppose a temporary measure to "sim" this would be to add about 10-20% to the S boats in the PI's at start but this can be quickly repaired quickly.And no....i'm not inviting the inevitable reaction comparing Iboats to Allied subs and how they are represented. I'm just commenting based on readings mainly derived from Blair's Silent Victory which described the somewhat decrepid condition of the old Sboats in 41. There's a reason they were relegated to less critical theaters besides range.


Nikademus -

An interesting and valid take to represent the aging, but still capabel S Boats.

Mac



YankeeAirRat -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/2/2011 6:19:09 AM)

Remember at the start of the war most of the S-boats were at a minimum 16yrs old. Which are pretty old when compared to the level of maintenance being preformed today. So it was pretty good that the 20 some odd submarines that were forward deployed to the PI were fully able to be deployed and conduct the fighting withdrawl to Oz in the opening year of the war.



obvert -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/2/2011 9:28:38 AM)

Just a link I found today to USS Pampanito, not an S-boat at all, but great stuff. Some sub charts and detailed tour info in 44.

http://www.maritime.org/pamphist/index.htm



HansBolter -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/2/2011 12:03:49 PM)

Lately my S boats seem to only encounter dud Mk 10s when engaging surface combatants.

I just started a new Ironman game.

So far, every S boat encounter with a surface combatant has been a dud, indluding a CVE, while every encounter with a transport has not.



John Lansford -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/2/2011 1:43:21 PM)

The S-boats are also slower and have a shorter range than the fleet boats, so their radius of operation is limited, especially early on when your sub bases keep getting relocated.  Don't know if surface speed is factored in whether they actually get to make an attack or not but it should be.



Bullwinkle58 -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/2/2011 4:15:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Lately my S boats seem to only encounter dud Mk 10s when engaging surface combatants.

I just started a new Ironman game.

So far, every S boat encounter with a surface combatant has been a dud, indluding a CVE, while every encounter with a transport has not.


I don't know, but it might be possible that there is player-side FOW where a miss is reported as a dud. Misisng fast combatants was the usual outcome, especially when they were transiting and zigging.

S-boats also didn't have TDCs, although this isn't overtly modeled in the game. They used the "banjo" (I believe also called the Is-Was) a hand-held computational device, but not nearly as good as the analog TDC.



Nikademus -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/2/2011 4:37:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witp1951

S-44 sank the cruiser Kako on Aug 10, 1942 off Kavieng with a Mark 10.

Edit: actually it was a four torpedo spread and they all reportedly exploded.



Yes....the cruiser steamed right up to the submerged boat's position, with no escort and no zig zagging. Target practice.... and an example of the irony of life and war.



crsutton -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/2/2011 7:22:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Lately my S boats seem to only encounter dud Mk 10s when engaging surface combatants.

I just started a new Ironman game.

So far, every S boat encounter with a surface combatant has been a dud, indluding a CVE, while every encounter with a transport has not.


When the game first came out there were a lot of complaints because Japanese submarines were slaughtering American DDs and escorts. In one of the patches they made changes to tone it down. However the problem is that the changes seem to have effected all escorts all accross the board. Sub attacks from both sides rarely hit an escort. However, large surface ships are still quite vuleralble to sub attacks.



witp1951 -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/3/2011 1:41:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: witp1951

S-44 sank the cruiser Kako on Aug 10, 1942 off Kavieng with a Mark 10.

Edit: actually it was a four torpedo spread and they all reportedly exploded.



Yes....the cruiser steamed right up to the submerged boat's position, with no escort and no zig zagging. Target practice.... and an example of the irony of life and war.



Reminds me how I met my wife.



Fallschirmjager -> RE: USN Torpedoes and S- class submarine (2/3/2011 11:26:44 PM)

It is a good idea to be good to your S-Boats. In 1944 or so they get upgrades that give them 'saddle' tanks and their endurance goes from 4050 to 8000 or 9000 depending on the series. After that they become a hell of a lot more useful. They still fire good torpedoes and they have have radar and now they have the range to stay at their patrol sites much much longer.



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