RE: Random weather too random? (Full Version)

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edub180 -> RE: Random weather too random? (2/9/2011 5:22:55 AM)

I really like redmarkus4's idea and hope something like that it will be implemented at some point.



vlcz -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/19/2012 8:17:31 AM)

I "resurrect" this topic in a somewhat whinnig way..

Lsst week , sick of my red-army demi-godless capacity to exactly know when to launch a clear time offensive that can not be countered thanks to sure following rains, I started a friendly Grand Campaign against a close friend.

turn three, July 1941 MUD.... Game Over.

I have readed in some other topic there is a coded amend to "force" Blizzard in december 41, even in "random" weather. Real or not it seems apropiate. For the sake of mental sanity and avoiding "false openings" should it not be made an arrangemente to assure clear in July-August 41??????



Blubel -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/19/2012 8:56:44 AM)

It would be great if an option could be coded in.



Baelfiin -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/19/2012 1:42:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vlcz

I "resurrect" this topic in a somewhat whinnig way..

Lsst week , sick of my red-army demi-godless capacity to exactly know when to launch a clear time offensive that can not be countered thanks to sure following rains, I started a friendly Grand Campaign against a close friend.

turn three, July 1941 MUD.... Game Over.

I have readed in some other topic there is a coded amend to "force" Blizzard in december 41, even in "random" weather. Real or not it seems apropiate. For the sake of mental sanity and avoiding "false openings" should it not be made an arrangemente to assure clear in July-August 41??????

only 1 mud per weather zone max in the summer, be glad its out of the way so early. If you get lucky you will have mud in a weather zone you have not gotten to yet !! 8)



vlcz -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/19/2012 2:27:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin
only 1 mud per weather zone max in the summer, be glad its out of the way so early. If you get lucky you will have mud in a weather zone you have not gotten to yet !! 8)


I wasn´t aware that limit[X(] it is a GREAT notice indeed (although I really feel there should be no mud posibility before september 41) , I´m sure you can imagine the dificulties of feeling lucky with a red bordered 3rd pz group next to the landbridge[:@][:(]



Schmart -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/19/2012 6:13:59 PM)

I'm pretty sure that with random weather, just as there is one mud turn guaranteed in summer 1941, there is one snow turn guaranteed during the first blizzard. This can stop a soviet winter counter-offensive just as much as the German summer advance.

In one of my games vs Axis AI with random weather, snow continued for ALL of April 1942 (obviously got lots of rare die-rolls), so the Axis spring counter-offensive lasted twice as long as usual. In the same game (more lucky die-rolls), there was clear weather for all of June 1942. Both were major advantages for the Axis. So it can work both ways.



Joel Billings -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/19/2012 6:36:32 PM)

From the manual, 22.2.2:

The following exceptions
will occur when using random weather:
»» There will be at most one snow turn per weather
zone in December and January.
»» There will be at most one mud turn per weather zone
during turns from 19 June to 30 September.
»» There will be at most one mud turn per weather zone
during turns from 01 December to 31 March.

From readme file:

7. Missing Rule – Section 22.2 should contain an additional exception that states there will be no snow or mud during December 1941 and January 1942 (only Blizzard).


The chance of Mud in the summer was added in to account for times when major rain would come in and significantly slow operations. Although usually for just a few days, we felt they added up enough to throw in 1 mud turn per zone per summer. It's part of the variability that you get with random weather. You have to expect that you will get hit with it at some point. I have't gotten the sense from posts that random weather favors one side or the other assuming the weather gods play fair over the long run.



morganbj -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/19/2012 7:46:08 PM)

I still say a lot of the weather "problems" could be solved if there were a few other types of weather. For example, why not have a "Summer Rain" type that slows only certain units down and only in semi-random places from June to September. You could also have not just Snow and Blizzard, but add a "Heavy Snow" and maybe even a "Light Snow." Maybe a "Freeze." I don't know what all of them should be, but it just seems limiting to have four types with which to simulate actual weather effects into the game.

And yes, I know it add a bit of programming, but it sure seems like it will have to be done for the Western front game anyway.



Q-Ball -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/19/2012 8:22:19 PM)

Random Weather isn't perfect, but I think it's basically OK within the engine. Over time, it favors the side that has the initiative, but over time that evens out since the initiative passes from the Germans to the Russians.

My only gripe is Ice Levels. They don't really make sense; I think they are too "Icy". You can have MUD, but have Rivers still frozen solid.



JAMiAM -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/19/2012 8:30:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Random Weather isn't perfect, but I think it's basically OK within the engine. Over time, it favors the side that has the initiative, but over time that evens out since the initiative passes from the Germans to the Russians.

My only gripe is Ice Levels. They don't really make sense; I think they are too "Icy". You can have MUD, but have Rivers still frozen solid.

Agreed. Even given the "Icy"ness of the rivers, there should still be some residual movement penalties and combat effects, even if they are frozen "solid". Nobody is going to drive a Pz Korps across a frozen river without giving a good testing of the ice pack, and it will change (weaken) as the amount of vehicles cross over it. Likewise, attacking across a frozen river is difficult. The embankments, and vegetation along the river offer good defensive position, and the clear iced section is a killing ground for ground fire, and artillery. Once the area has been shelled, it would be extremely foolhardy to expect that the ice hasn't weakened and gotten more dangerous.



Q-Ball -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/19/2012 8:41:46 PM)

Not only that, you can have Snow in North Soviet, and Icy conditions, well into May. While it's warmer now and global warming and all that, you can't plant anything until the ground thaws, and any snowpack more than a week or two after that would immediate wipe out any crops.

While it was pretty cold up there in the 40's, I bet you didn't have much snow in May, even then. It would have resulted in mass starvation.



Flaviusx -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/19/2012 9:04:22 PM)

The main agricultural lands were in the south, Q-ball. Let's not overstate things, but yeah, weather in the game needs improvement.




Skanvak -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/22/2012 8:09:45 AM)

I would prefer a better weather system. As the game is down to the week and record individual plane, tank and so the weather system should be on the same level of detail and not les detail that the WiF one (a simple corp level game). We don't exactly need a per hex weather (a group of hex can do) but that nt the real point : we need a WEATHER SYSTEM! Weather is not random in reality, it has its rules and such and weather simulator does exist. I am sure that we could find a weather nerd that would made a good weather system. That is a system with move cold and warmer air mass interaction. And of course +1 for the forecast idea (In continental europe I don't think we use %, we just tell the highest or say mixed weather).

That would be in ligne with the level of detail of WitE. The weather system look like the klaxon of a luxury car replaced by a plastic ringing bell.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/23/2012 12:00:43 AM)

I shouldn't use Laramie, Wyoming as an example (living at 7200 feet means a lot of cold in the winter), but for 2-3 weeks after the "thaw" starts in April/May here (we are behind the Eastern Front) the lakes are still navigable by vehicle. Ice that is feet thick with a high reflectivity doesn't melt that fast with cold nights, and it is only when the water appears (darker, absorbs more heat) that the ice breaks up.

I know, it is apropos of nothing, but I thought my first post back in a long time should carry on the tradition of uselessness!



Redmarkus5 -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/24/2012 5:39:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: edub180

Hi,
I finally started my first 41-45 campaign as the Germans after playing some of the scenarios and in order to prevent myself from playing with hindsight, I turned off "non-random weather" (BTW, a confusing way of labeling that option, both "random weather" or "historical weather" would have been a little more straightforward). I assumed this would add a little suspense and fun to the game, not knowing when the blizzard will hit, since I'm "only" playing on normal difficulty.

I was indeed surprised by the weather; on turn 3, the Central Soviet Zone became muddy and my Panzers slithered to a halt. Since it was late, I scratched my head, saved the game, and went to bed. When I continued the game today, I decided to load up the save from the end of turn 2 and see if the weather would "change" going in to turn 3. It did, this time around the South Soviet Zone showed mud, and on the third try, the European Zone became muddy. In all cases all the other zones had clear weather.

I'm wondering if this is a bug or WAD. As far as I understood it, the mud phases in WitE are supposed to model the Rasputitsa, basically forcing both sides to cease all major operations, and not just some bad weather in summer. It's only July 3rd on turn 3. So how random is the weather? Blizzards in August?


wrong thread



glvaca -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/24/2012 8:05:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

I shouldn't use Laramie, Wyoming as an example (living at 7200 feet means a lot of cold in the winter), but for 2-3 weeks after the "thaw" starts in April/May here (we are behind the Eastern Front) the lakes are still navigable by vehicle. Ice that is feet thick with a high reflectivity doesn't melt that fast with cold nights, and it is only when the water appears (darker, absorbs more heat) that the ice breaks up.

I know, it is apropos of nothing, but I thought my first post back in a long time should carry on the tradition of uselessness!


And you succeeded marveously [:D][;)]

I still hope that a very simple option to code could be put into the game as an option.
The feedback many players are giving is they don't play random weather, eventhough they would like to for all the reasons listed, because they feel that it can upset the balance of the game in 1941 if a freak event occurs.

So they would very much appreciate if the option could be coded in which you have historical weather till, let's say, end of Blizzard 1942?, then have full random.

That's all folks. Thank you.



Michael T -> RE: Random weather too random? (1/25/2012 4:58:45 AM)

quote:

The feedback many players are giving is they don't play random weather, eventhough they would like to for all the reasons listed, because they feel that it can upset the balance of the game in 1941 if a freak event occurs


+1

This is precisely why I won't use it.



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