'A Space Port in each system' (Full Version)

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Apheirox -> 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 1:47:56 PM)

quote:

Space ports are bases that provide many important
services. Space ports must always be built at a colony.

They serve as a central trade point for the player, and mined
resources are brought to them by freighters and mining
ships. Space ports provide construction facilities for the
player, and both private and state-owned ships are built
at space ports. When private citizens purchase freighters
or other ships at these ports, the player earns income.

Space ports also have heavy weapons which protect its colony,
research facilities for scientists, medical facilities and recreation
centers which keep the population happy. The player should
have one space port in each system where they have colonies.

Resources collected by mining ships, as well as excess
resources at mining stations, are brought to the nearest
space port. Therefore, having space ports strategically spread
throughout the empire improves efficiency by decreasing travel
time for freighters. To cycle through space ports, press P.


Quote, the game manual.

I want to ask the experts around here, is it truly a good idea to have a space port in each system? I haven't tried custom-building a small space port yet, but I assume even if you do it won't exactly be light on maintenance.



Sabin Stargem -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 1:52:20 PM)

Ya. They help with boosting morale on planets if you use the Recreation and Medical components, plus they serve as a shipping, storage, and construction hub. I personally use Small and Large stations, with the latter having all of the goodies, while the former is just meant to entertain the masses until the larger station is finished.



diablo1 -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 1:57:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabin Stargem

Ya. They help with boosting morale on planets if you use the Recreation and Medical components, plus they serve as a shipping, storage, and construction hub. I personally use Small and Large stations, with the latter having all of the goodies, while the former is just meant to entertain the masses until the larger station is finished.



Agree ^ you need and should have Spaceports in every system. Think of them as Recreation and Rest Stop centers without having to land on planets like in Babylon 5.



Shark7 -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 3:25:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apheirox

quote:

Space ports are bases that provide many important
services. Space ports must always be built at a colony.

They serve as a central trade point for the player, and mined
resources are brought to them by freighters and mining
ships. Space ports provide construction facilities for the
player, and both private and state-owned ships are built
at space ports. When private citizens purchase freighters
or other ships at these ports, the player earns income.

Space ports also have heavy weapons which protect its colony,
research facilities for scientists, medical facilities and recreation
centers which keep the population happy. The player should
have one space port in each system where they have colonies.

Resources collected by mining ships, as well as excess
resources at mining stations, are brought to the nearest
space port. Therefore, having space ports strategically spread
throughout the empire improves efficiency by decreasing travel
time for freighters. To cycle through space ports, press P.


Quote, the game manual.

I want to ask the experts around here, is it truly a good idea to have a space port in each system? I haven't tried custom-building a small space port yet, but I assume even if you do it won't exactly be light on maintenance.


I build a small space port on every planet, and larger ports on more important planets.

1. The port gives the medical/recreation bonus to the planet, which should be affecting growth rate.
2. Planets with ports are far less likely to revolt.
3. Each port increases bonus income, which is the reason I can have 2+ million cash on hand by end game.



J HG T -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 3:31:32 PM)

Depending on my economy, small spaceport on every planet over 50% quality, medium spaceport on 75% and over planets and large spaceport to big planets of 80% and over. Has worked out nicely for me. Planets with loros fruit or some other super rare resource get at least medium spaceport.



Shark7 -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 3:34:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: J HG T

Depending on my economy, small spaceport on every planet over 50% quality, medium spaceport on 75% and over planets and large spaceport to big planets of 80% and over. Has worked out nicely for me. Planets with loros fruit or some other super rare resource get at least medium spaceport.



I base mine purely on population. <500m = small, 501m-2b = medium, 2b+ = large. Basically it is just a personal preference though, everyone has their own system.



Data -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 4:02:15 PM)

I haven't played in a while but afaik you still have to design the small spaceport yourself in order to include the morale boosting medical and recreational centers.



J HG T -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 4:04:22 PM)

Depends on the race, Data. 



Data -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 4:06:02 PM)

right, J, that is correct....I'll have to diversify the races with which I'm playing



Haree78 -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 4:06:35 PM)

Has anyone cosidered when building a Large whether it is best to build a small then upgrade twice?  Sometimes it's nice to get everything up and running on the port as soon as possible, Large can take a looooong time if the Colony is small.
Is there much difference in cost this way?



Shark7 -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 4:10:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Haree78

Has anyone cosidered when building a Large whether it is best to build a small then upgrade twice?  Sometimes it's nice to get everything up and running on the port as soon as possible, Large can take a looooong time if the Colony is small.
Is there much difference in cost this way?


In my case, a large has 12 construction bays, so it is prohibitively expensive to build a large on every planet.



Data -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 4:39:36 PM)

I think Haree78 said that even where you build a LSP it is best to start with a small one and upgrade it....and indeed this way is best as you get what you need faster and then can increase (by upgrading to larger versions) the number of construction yards, cargo bays, docking bays and all that stuff
this is how I do it also....expect late game when you already researched faster construction techs and even new planets have the potential to build faster



Howard Mitchell -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 4:42:56 PM)

Cost is based on components, so it if the end result is the same it shouldn't make any difference if you build a large space port straight away or small -> medium -> large, but with the latter route you get the benefits quicker.

Economics has changed in various patches and between DW and RotS, but I usually have a 'minimal' spaceport design which includes recreation and medical and build that one per planet, even if a system already has one.



Apheirox -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 4:49:32 PM)

Thanks for replies.

New question: You say one of the reasons to build the space ports is the morale boosting. But isn't boosting morale a moot point on newly founded colonies with 15M citizens? They provide exactly 0,0000001% of your income. All that matters are your main colonies, particularly capital. So, it doesn't really help increase revenue nor increase growth rate, since these colonies are max happy anyway?



Data -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 4:53:53 PM)

don't think only of taxes, Apheirox, think also of war weariness and possible rebellion....there is also development that is boosted by these facilites; and development is in everything: growth rate, research potential and many other aspects



Larsenex -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 5:22:28 PM)

I set colony building on auto and tell them to build a medium spaceport (mega) which is my custom one at every colony. Its about the same size as a Large but is classed as 'medium'. I find it really helps with rebellion and makes EVERYONE happy!



Apheirox -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 6:08:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

don't think only of taxes, Apheirox, think also of war weariness and possible rebellion....there is also development that is boosted by these facilites; and development is in everything: growth rate, research potential and many other aspects


I understand about the value of keeping happiness high to prevent rebellion etc, but what is this 'development' you speak of? Both the medical and recreation centres of space ports increase only happiness as far as I'm aware - and unless excess happiness (15+) increases growth rate I don't understand its merits. As far as I know the only way happiness increases growth is by attracting emigrants better.

Also, if space ports everywhere are good, why isn't the AI building them? Most planets don't get one.



Sabin Stargem -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 6:11:34 PM)

That is because the AI is flawed in some respects.



Data -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 6:20:59 PM)

the more facilities you have at a colony or in orbit the more developed that colony is considered; there are also other factors (like luxury goods) that boost development but this is also one of them
development in turn is used to calculate lots of things like your strategic value and that in turn gives you other things...for example, strategic value / 16 gives you your research potential
these are all rough explanations as there are more complex elements to factor in

best is to check the galactopedia, it's in the game home under /help....search for "development" on that folder and check all the goodies [;)]



Apheirox -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 7:21:33 PM)

Well, the development concept is nothing new to me. I just thought it came from luxury goods only. Nowhere in the manual nor galactopedia does it say anything about increasing development through other means than luxuries.



Apheirox -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 7:40:20 PM)

I have to say I still don't get it. In my current ongoing sandbox game with just a single docile opponent and pirates disabled, running a skeleton fleet only, I've gone with this 'space ports at every solar system' build (no ports for low quality planets, though). The effect? Total, economic disaster! The entire population is happy alright, but these darn ports are eating up a good 66% of my tax income.

Another issue the space port spam raises is research: You don't really need research stations when you have this many space ports with their built-in labs - I'm currently maxing my research and have zero research stations.

Makes no sense at all, sorry. An explanation is appreciated.



Data -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 8:29:28 PM)

two things to note here:

1. better to always design your stations and ships for best performance and, most importantly at this stage, lowest maintenance. Indeed, I never use labs on space ports as a well placed research station (at resource bonus location like black holes) can get the same research with less maintenance overall.

2. watch out for the prices on the resources that make the components of the stations / ships. The cost of these resources determines the maintenance cost, you want them as low as possible (1 is the minimum for strategic resources).
You can actually see all the resources and quantities that make up a design which is great for estimating the most money eating resource. Then make sure you have enough mining stations or planets that cover that resource and voila, instant lower maintenance costs.



KenchiSulla -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 8:31:14 PM)

Arent you hampered a lot if there is just one other empire out there? Your not trading with other races.. I think you would do better in a "normal" game.



Abraxis -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 8:35:27 PM)

Interesting, I never thought of that.
Does this mean you could also lower your maintenance rates by having excess resources (resource surplus = lower cost)?



Data -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 8:42:05 PM)

that's exactly what it means [;)]



Abraxis -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 8:43:26 PM)

Awesome, I never really saw a reason to actually try and hoard resources so long as I had enough to build things.  I guess this changes that.



Data -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 8:54:45 PM)

Just remember to keep an eye on the expansion planner, there you can see the current price for each resource....once the strategic ones hit 1 (and they do relatively fast if you have some constructors on auto) then you're good....no need for further hoarding [:)]
luxury ones are a different matter, they take much more time.....but they are not that much needed for the maintenance aspect, primarily for colony development



Apheirox -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 9:40:46 PM)

Data, thank you so much for your replies.

It sounds like to a great degree it's simply a matter of the fact that you cannot really have an efficient empire without custom designing your 'stuff' because the default designs simply aren't very good. I think this is a shame - you might as well not have automatic designs if you're required to create your own anyway to play properly. Moreover, having to build space ports everywhere still seems counter-intuitive to me since the AI doesn't do it, neither in the form of your AI advisor suggesting it (with that enabled) or the opponent AI empires constructing them at each system.

Now, I'd really like you to go back and address my other question from before:

You wrote:

quote:

don't think only of taxes, Apheirox, think also of war weariness and possible rebellion....there is also development that is boosted by these facilites; and development is in everything: growth rate, research potential and many other aspects


to which I replied:

quote:

I understand about the value of keeping happiness high to prevent rebellion etc, but what is this 'development' you speak of? Both the medical and recreation centres of space ports increase only happiness as far as I'm aware - and unless excess happiness (15+) increases growth rate I don't understand its merits. As far as I know the only way happiness increases growth is by attracting emigrants better.


As far as I can tell, growth rate is controlled by 1) planet quality and 2) development level. Are you saying happiness increases growth?



Data -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 10:03:38 PM)

no, indeed it doesn't....what you observed about "the only way happiness increases growth is by attracting emigrants better" is indeed correct
i went back to the pedia and clarified my misunderstanding

"Population growth
Small colonies have faster population growth: when a colony has less than 500 million people, then population growth receives a 50% bonus.
Migration of your citizens from large colonies to smaller ones is a major factor in achieving fast growth of new colonies. Citizens will be naturally attracted to nearby colonies with low taxes and good development levels. They will board passenger ships and migrate to those new colonies, boosting the population there.
Some areas of colonization research can also accelerate population growth at particular planet types.
Colony populations eventually reach a natural limit, at which point no further population growth will occur. This limit is determined by two factors:

· Quality of world: more hospitable worlds with higher quality allow for higher maximum population levels
· Size of world: larger worlds allow for higher maximum population levels
· Native planet type: if the type of the planet or moon is the native type for the race living there, then the maximum population is 10% higher"

There is more interesting stuff there but I didn't want to clutter the post. But indeed I think I got the wrong idea when reading about "Migration of your citizens from large colonies to smaller ones is a major factor in achieving fast growth of new colonies" -> you were correct.




Data -> RE: 'A Space Port in each system' (2/3/2011 10:07:21 PM)

Forgot about the first part.
The AI default designs are not that bad and you can get by with them just fine. It's just that once you get to know how everything works you really want to squeeze the most out of them in ways even Elliot may have not considered initially; the forum and wishlist are full of requests on this, I'll not be surprised if a future patch or the next expansion brings us improved AI designs.



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