Rifle Corps?

Rifle Corps? (Full Version)

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Oleg Mastruko -> Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 2:38:54 AM)
OK what's the public opinion on creating Sov Rifle Corps in spring 42? I guess creating Tank and Cavalry corps is pretty much given, as it's so much more manageable to with those units, and divs and bdes are too weak anyway. However Rifle Corps is not so clear cut, as Rifle divisions are mainstay of your army, so maybe it's better to have more (slightly weaker, but by 42 relatively strong) divisions, than fewer of the stronger corps units? I tend to keep the rifle divisions. Opinions?

pompack -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 2:45:21 AM)
I still don't know myself. Playing against the AI, I struggled all through the summer of 42 against the carpet defense. In the winter of 43 the AI converted almost entirely to Rifle Corps; the entire defense collapsed in three weeks since there were not enough units to defend in depth. Now that was the AI, but it seems like a human will have the same problem. I experimented as the Russian with spreading the Rifle Corps out with one or two per army and the rest divisions; however that just seemed to combine the disadvantages of both approaches without retaining any advantages. I am also very interested in other's thoughts on this. [&:]

Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 2:52:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pompack Playing against the AI, I struggled all through the summer of 42 against the carpet defense. In the winter of 43 the AI converted almost entirely to Rifle Corps; the entire defense collapsed in three weeks since there were not enough units to defend in depth. What I find interesting in your post (as a sidenote) is that it appears you won vs AI, in 1943? Usually people win games vs Sov AI in 41 or 42, or do not win at all [8D] Anyway, your experience kinda confirms what I thought.....

Q-Ball -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 2:59:13 AM)
I would definitely create Guards Corps for sure; not sure how many Guards Rifle Divs you get, but I know you can create a few by converting Airborne Units. Always use 2 Guards/1 Reg Rifle Div, you get the most for your money. Probably Corps are necessary for attack, and Divs for defense, so probably a mix of both.

Klydon -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 3:06:28 AM)
I think you form at least some to get combat density up. Your tank corps suck in 1942 for from what I have seen/heard and I would think you would want to piggy back them on rifle corps in order to try to pile up the wins and rebuild their moral/experience. The other huge advantage that corps grant is you can directly assign support units you want them to have. Can't do that with Russian divisions.

raizer -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 3:10:57 AM)
you want to make them cuz you can direct attach SU to them. sappers or guaranteed artillery b4 you can make your stand alone arty units

jomni -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 3:16:36 AM)
Playing the Soviets, I can't wait to build these Corps. The front lines are so crowded at the current state. But agree that I will not convert them all since there will be holes.

randallw -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 4:59:35 AM)
Artillery is not supposed to be directly attachable.

2ndACR -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 5:08:51 AM)
Never, ever build rifle corps, they are weak and useless.

Flaviusx -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 5:13:40 AM)
Prepatch, I max out my guards rifle corps count. Regulars I think can wait for a while. The early TOE for them isn't amazing and you actually do need a fair number of rifle divisions even in 1942 for digging purposes. The 42 Red Army isn't quite ready to go all in on an offensive and rifle corps are primarily an offensive instrument of war. Once artillery divisions arrive and get built, I go all in on rifle corps and try to convert all my remaining rifle divisions as quickly as APs allow. Post patch things get more complicated due to the 20 AP cost for rifle corps in 42. I'd still try to form some guards rifle corps, but probably not as many as allowed by the cap. You can basically get 40-45 guards rifle corps going by mid 42 with the guards rifle divisions cap. I also put in these guards rifle corps under shock armies as their command capacity allows. Eventually you'll have more of these corps than can be fit into shock armies.

BletchleyGeek -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 12:02:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Flaviusx I also put in these guards rifle corps under shock armies as their command capacity allows. Eventually you'll have more of these corps than can be fit into shock armies. Guards and Shock Armies look like a fearsome combo.

jaw -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 1:12:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 2ndACR Never, ever build rifle corps, they are weak and useless. I think you are referring to the first generation rifle corps in 1942. This rifle corps was composed of rifle brigades (roughly half the size of a rifle division). Later rifle corps are composed of three rifle divisions so they allow you to concentrate three times as much infantry in a hex as you can with divisions. The exact timing of when to create rifle corps and in what quantity depends on the strategic situation and player's preferences.

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 1:40:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 2ndACR Never, ever build rifle corps, they are weak and useless. [:)] Fortifications are for wimps too.

2ndACR -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 1:40:25 PM)
I am Oleg's opponent, I don't want him to have rifle corps.

bwheatley -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 1:40:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko OK what's the public opinion on creating Sov Rifle Corps in spring 42? I guess creating Tank and Cavalry corps is pretty much given, as it's so much more manageable to with those units, and divs and bdes are too weak anyway. However Rifle Corps is not so clear cut, as Rifle divisions are mainstay of your army, so maybe it's better to have more (slightly weaker, but by 42 relatively strong) divisions, than fewer of the stronger corps units? I tend to keep the rifle divisions. Opinions? it depends on the part of the front. In areas where you are stacked i go with rifle corps so that i have some punch to push german stacks back. I think with this new update though costing 20 AP for all of 42 will sure make me stay with more divisions.

bwheatley -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 1:42:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pompack I still don't know myself. Playing against the AI, I struggled all through the summer of 42 against the carpet defense. In the winter of 43 the AI converted almost entirely to Rifle Corps; the entire defense collapsed in three weeks since there were not enough units to defend in depth. Now that was the AI, but it seems like a human will have the same problem. I experimented as the Russian with spreading the Rifle Corps out with one or two per army and the rest divisions; however that just seemed to combine the disadvantages of both approaches without retaining any advantages. I am also very interested in other's thoughts on this. [&:] Ya that was the rub in some places i wouldn't have enough for a defense in depth. But once you make the corps you can still break it apart if you need it's just nice that you can quickly and freely combine them up to make corps if you see the opportunity for a 6-9 corp attack.

bwheatley -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 1:46:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball I would definitely create Guards Corps for sure; not sure how many Guards Rifle Divs you get, but I know you can create a few by converting Airborne Units. Always use 2 Guards/1 Reg Rifle Div, you get the most for your money. Probably Corps are necessary for attack, and Divs for defense, so probably a mix of both. By 42 i had probably 15 guards divisions at least i had enough to form a full ARMY (not guards army..not sure what the diff is) of 26 Cp of guard divisions. I then made a few guard corps and man they were super nice. If my last game had made it through winter 42 because bug killed it i had a nice plan. I had my 3rd shock army that was all guards divisions and corps. Had a tank army of 7 tank corps. And i had a 4th shock army with 15 ski brigades and 10 cav divisions to try to pinch off the area NW of rostov and pin a large number of germans against the sea of astov.

bwheatley -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 1:48:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Klydon I think you form at least some to get combat density up. Your tank corps suck in 1942 for from what I have seen/heard and I would think you would want to piggy back them on rifle corps in order to try to pile up the wins and rebuild their moral/experience.� The other huge advantage that corps grant is you can directly assign support units you want them to have. Can't do that with Russian divisions.� Your tank corps in early 42 blow but by summer/winter you start transitioning to the 42b tank corp and they are pretty nice. In good corps i had 8-12 cv. I was able to use my tank army to walk up and smack around loan or weaker german infantry stacks. Then by winter they have much better mobility so you can keep them off the front and drive up hit whatever and have enough MP for a deliberate attack and then retreat back to safety.

bwheatley -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 1:50:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 2ndACR Never, ever build rifle corps, they are weak and useless. Hrm i'd have to disagree. They are quite useful when you need to group a lot of combat power to hit an important german stack. 9 rifle divisions saying at avg 4 CV would hit a german stack from 3 sides with 36 CV. 9 rifle corps saying an the same avg of 4cv per division gives you 108 CV with which to hit.

bwheatley -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 1:52:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 2ndACR I am Oleg's opponent, I don't want him to have rifle corps.� LOL..then yes don't use rifle corps they are stupid! Though with the patch he's going to have a hard time getting a large number of them in 42. I think it's nice having them build and then you can break them down again. But at least next time you combine them it's free (if they fixed that bug that was double charging heh)

Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 2:23:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 2ndACR I am Oleg's opponent, I don't want him to have rifle corps.� LOL ACR see how many people thought your comment was serious? [:D] You need to use more smileys, like this one [:'(] ACR is my PBEM opponent and actually that game is furthest I got in any WITE campaign, so most of my "what do I do now with this new toy?" questions will be prompted by this game vs ACR. Whataver he replies in those threads is basically opposite of what he really thinks [:D]

bwheatley -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 2:35:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko quote: ORIGINAL: 2ndACR I am Oleg's opponent, I don't want him to have rifle corps.� LOL ACR see how many people thought your comment was serious? [:D] You need to use more smileys, like this one [:'(] ACR is my PBEM opponent and actually that game is furthest I got in any WITE campaign, so most of my "what do I do now with this new toy?" questions will be prompted by this game vs ACR. Whataver he replies in those threads is basically opposite of what he really thinks [:D] How come this is as far as you got? most of your german opponents surrender after winter eviscerates them? It sounds like it's going to be like witp...when the japs lose the KB your lesser opponents throw in the towel. The whole fun of the games is playing it out. Of course with witp the japanese drubbing takes a lot longer with 1 day turns. hehe. Only reason my last game ended was a bug that killed a lot of ara's troops. I was so bummed but hopefully our next game will last a little longer. ;)

sillyflower -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 5:32:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 2ndACR I am Oleg's opponent, I don't want him to have rifle corps.� Nice try at a double bluff.

Aragorn69 -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 5:39:37 PM)
back to the initial question : Yes i used them, the more, the better. Stragegy is using them "en masse" to bleed germans. Circular attacks by 3x3 corps, even unsuccesfull if there is parity in squad losses to both sides are russian pleasure. Remember Zukhov offensives (even the bad ones like Rjev), they were bleeding germany. regards

randallw -> RE: Rifle Corps? (2/10/2011 6:12:30 PM)
About the Guards Armies.... I believe an Army HQ that has a good enough W/L difference can get the Guards label; whether this gives a morale bonus, I dunno.

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