Who was the Moron?

Who was the Moron? (Full Version)

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bevans -> Who was the Moron? (2/12/2011 7:37:40 PM)
Who was the moron that decided that most of the stuff you needed to do to mod/create a scenario would be done in the generic data? An incomprehensible decision but would have been OK if WitE had not been so flawed on release. Every patch seems to rewrite the generic data, destroying any modding that one might have done. Stands to reason though, given the arrogance of the development team (most of the editor 'manual' is a diatribe against anyone who would dare tinker with the game). So given that there is no chance that the developers will ever give us a reasonable editor where scenario changes would actually be contained in the scenario files, is 1.03 beta 4 actually a reasonable game now or should I just go away for a year or two so that the developers can get their act together? And yes, I know that the Fanboys will vote for me to go away. But I played the boardgame (actually living room floor game) as a grad student in the '70s and WiR in the early '90s so I was really looking forward to this game, which I believe has real potential. Just can't figure out why the developers are making it so difficult for me, at least, to enjoy.

Terminus -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/12/2011 7:40:20 PM)
Good way to get what you want, insulting the people who can change things.[8\|]

Mehring -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/12/2011 8:39:05 PM)
Bevans, don't you think this a few steps forward from SPI WitE and WiE? Compared to some of the games that reach the market, and I speak with considerable experience of exasperation, this is actually quite good. For all its faults, this game was playable on release. It's got better since and will doubtless improve further. Yes, there are plenty of design flaws and things that would have been done better differently. Some of these will never be put right. But do you really want to be pushing those generic 6-5s and 1-4s over your front room? You know Descision Games has re-released WiE with a few improvements? I'll flog you my copy if you like.

Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 12:06:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bevans should I just go away for a year or two Sounds like a good idea....[>:]

Great_Ajax -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 12:19:55 AM)
Uh. I like the way it is. Every time there is an official update to a leader, piece of equipment, or OB, I don't have to edit 8+ scenarios to reflect each change in the scenario data and risk desynchronizing the data. It cuts down on a hell of a lot of work to keep everything consistent. If we didn't do it this way, everytime a minor update came out, each scenario designer would have to go in and edit all of the data that changed himself. Trey

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 1:41:06 AM)
I am a moron, but I am not the moron. Just for the record.

JAMiAM -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 2:36:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch I am a moron, but I am not the moron. That's similar to what I have to tell some of my customers. The customer may always be right, but you are only a customer...[:D]

colberki -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 3:01:48 AM)
1.03 beta 4 made a great game closer to perfection! No compliants here! But I admit I will enjoy a new 41 game without the TOE bug which frankly I had not noticed the first time around. Duh [:(]

Klydon -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 3:03:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bevans Who was the moron that decided that most of the stuff you needed to do to mod/create a scenario would be done in the generic data? An incomprehensible decision but would have been OK if WitE had not been so flawed on release. Every patch seems to rewrite the generic data, destroying any modding that one might have done. Stands to reason though, given the arrogance of the development team (most of the editor 'manual' is a diatribe against anyone who would dare tinker with the game). So given that there is no chance that the developers will ever give us a reasonable editor where scenario changes would actually be contained in the scenario files, is 1.03 beta 4 actually a reasonable game now or should I just go away for a year or two so that the developers can get their act together? And yes, I know that the Fanboys will vote for me to go away. But I played the boardgame (actually living room floor game) as a grad student in the '70s and WiR in the early '90s so I was really looking forward to this game, which I believe has real potential. Just can't figure out why the developers are making it so difficult for me, at least, to enjoy. [sm=sign0003.gif]

E -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 4:34:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bevans Just can't figure out why the developers are making it so difficult for me, at least, to enjoy. ROFL!

Mehring -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 9:32:32 AM)
Can you not use a mod installer like JoneSoft? I guess you have to make the mod in some format the installer understands, but if you do that, all your work is saved. Think through problems before whinging?

Helpless -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 3:05:20 PM)
We plan to allow higher flexibility in mod making, i.e. locked generic data in scenario, ability to use mod folders for the arts and generic data, ability to switch on/off hardcoded functions, etc. But due to the limited programming resources the more emphasis is put on general game stability and balance first. Anyway, current editor is not something which cannot be used. We had quite a few guys who were able to create new or contribute by manipulating existing scenarios.

Great_Ajax -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 4:35:23 PM)
Just to back up Helpless here. During the Christmas break, I made two scenarios from scratch that are currently in testing. Every conceivable unit that fought on the Eastern Front is in the database and if we missed one, we will add it as long as there are references to back it up. The editor is quite usable and if you run into problems, just post them up in the editing forum and we will answer them. Trey quote: ORIGINAL: Helpless We plan to allow higher flexibility in mod making, i.e. locked generic data in scenario, ability to use mod folders for the arts and generic data, ability to switch on/off hardcoded functions, etc. But due to the limited programming resources the more emphasis is put on general game stability and balance first. Anyway, current editor is not something which cannot be used. We had quite a few guys who were able to create new or contribute by manipulating existing scenarios.

Klydon -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 4:54:27 PM)
Last I checked on the script side of the house, there was a bug that did not allow one of the settings available (think it was #6, which can't be entered from the keyboard at this point). Has anything been done with this by chance?

Great_Ajax -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 5:32:21 PM)
Can you be more specific? I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about setting VP locations? Trey quote: ORIGINAL: Klydon Last I checked on the script side of the house, there was a bug that did not allow one of the settings available (think it was #6, which can't be entered from the keyboard at this point). Has anything been done with this by chance?

Senno -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 8:28:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: E quote: ORIGINAL: bevans Just can't figure out why the developers are making it so difficult for me, at least, to enjoy. ROFL! Agreed.

Klydon -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 9:58:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: el hefe Can you be more specific? I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about setting VP locations? Trey quote: ORIGINAL: Klydon Last I checked on the script side of the house, there was a bug that did not allow one of the settings available (think it was #6, which can't be entered from the keyboard at this point). Has anything been done with this by chance? No. When you edit the script for unit moves. The bar shows: 1 = cheat 2 = Move deliberate 3 = move deliberate stack 4 = move hasty 5 = move hasty stack When you enter the actual number, the result is: 1 = cheat 2 = move 3 = move deliberate 4 = move deliberate stack 5 = move hasty Entering 6 does nothing, so move hasty stack is not an option to enter into a script. Also curious what "cheat" is as well. In addition, I don't see a transfer command and also wondering what the command is for "move towards" and what it means. Thanks!

Great_Ajax -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 10:34:53 PM)
If you are doing a first turn script, the easiest way to do it is to play the first turn of your scenario and end turn. The game always saves your turn as a script file. Exit your game, open up your scenario in the editor and go to the MAIN tab. Click on LOAD RECORDED SCRIPT and it will load your first turn moves that you just played. Save the scenario and you're good to go. Doing scripts really only works on the first turn though. Trey quote: ORIGINAL: Klydon quote: ORIGINAL: el hefe Can you be more specific? I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about setting VP locations? Trey quote: ORIGINAL: Klydon Last I checked on the script side of the house, there was a bug that did not allow one of the settings available (think it was #6, which can't be entered from the keyboard at this point). Has anything been done with this by chance? No. When you edit the script for unit moves. The bar shows: 1 = cheat 2 = Move deliberate 3 = move deliberate stack 4 = move hasty 5 = move hasty stack When you enter the actual number, the result is: 1 = cheat 2 = move 3 = move deliberate 4 = move deliberate stack 5 = move hasty Entering 6 does nothing, so move hasty stack is not an option to enter into a script. Also curious what "cheat" is as well. In addition, I don't see a transfer command and also wondering what the command is for "move towards" and what it means. Thanks!

Klydon -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/13/2011 10:47:37 PM)
Excellent. Thanks for the info on that.

bevans -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/14/2011 4:30:32 AM)
I like the editor, I have spent hours with it modding the '41 GC. The annoying bit is that the patches overwrite my mod. I don't hear anyone saying that the game didn't need to be patched - or will be needing more patches. The game is good, it could be great, which will need those patches and/or mods to achieve. So I patched yesterday and am still regenerating the mod. If there is a mod management tool out there, I was not aware of it but will certainly look. And I still don't believe that it is so unreasonable to be able to save the stuff you change in the Scenario files with the editor. I mean, you can save some of it, just not some of the stuff you change in the Generic files.

Duality -> RE: Who was the Moron? (2/17/2011 3:57:44 AM)
I'm not sure if I'm a fanboy, but I vote that you go away. Its one thing to bring up constructive criticism, but that wasn't even close.

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