What to do about command points for AGC & AGS (Full Version)

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TSkoopCRP -> What to do about command points for AGC & AGS (2/13/2011 7:30:50 AM)

I noticed in the '41 to '45 GC, AGC and AGS both have an excessive amounts of units attached to thier commands. Is this chain of command is a historical representation ? Is there suppose to be a command point penalty historically ? AGS is 70 command points over the limit and AGC is 35, how exactly does being this far over the CP limit affect them ?

So should there be an adjustment to both thier CP limits, there is no way to create new HQs to take on some of this command burden. Doesn't seem right assigning corps and armies directly to the OKH.



Mehring -> RE: What to do about command points for AGC & AGS (2/13/2011 9:11:47 AM)

In 1941 I try to transfer Rumanian 3. and 4. Armies to AG Antonescu ASAP which takes a bit of strain off AGS.



heliodorus04 -> RE: What to do about command points for AGC & AGS (2/13/2011 2:19:41 PM)

There's still the question of:
What, if any, is the historical precedent for assigning so many units to these HQs that the suffer penalties of command in the game?



Q-Ball -> RE: What to do about command points for AGC & AGS (2/13/2011 2:50:32 PM)

The problem with tranferring the Romanians, is that you transfer them from good leadership (AGS), to bad leadership (Romanian). I have asked the question a bunch of times, what is worse: Overloaded good leadership, or bad leadership. The further up you go, apparently the less of a problem overloading is. So it's not a huge deal.

Probably the best thing is to give the Romanians to OKH



Klydon -> RE: What to do about command points for AGC & AGS (2/13/2011 3:11:53 PM)

Eh, depends on what you decide to do with the Rumanians. If you plan on using most of their infantry on garrison duty, then who cares where they are assigned at.

I usually try to fix AGC by giving units to AGN and just move the break point of the army group front.

After the Germans get their 4th army level command (when AGS becomes AGA and AGB) then I would think that would provide an opportunity to fix most of the upper command issues.

By my understanding of how command works, if you have good intermediate commanders (corps and army commanders) then the overload at the top will be less of a factor since the corps and army commanders blow fewer rolls and the army group commander doesn't get a shot at it as often. This is also why many will leave combat elements of the Rumanians under the Germans because the Rumanian commanders will blow the die roll more often, making who above them more important as they get a chance to roll as well.

If it really bugs a person that the army group commands are overloaded, then it won't hurt much to assign Army HQ's directly to OKH, although you miss the opportunity for the Army group die roll if needed.



Farfarer61 -> RE: What to do about command points for AGC & AGS (2/13/2011 11:34:12 PM)

Not sure exacty what I did but I I did a sprint across the Don on T13 and AG "A" and "B" appeared. I swiftly retreated before T18 as 2 Pz Corps were at risk. My intent was to hose up my opponents rail plan as ther are a few key RR and junctions. AG "A" and "B" HQ's were a surprise that i actually didn't notice until I was putting down Fort Zones. They were there on T14. 1.03 Beta 4. May have a save if anyone really cares :)



Klydon -> RE: What to do about command points for AGC & AGS (2/13/2011 11:44:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

Not sure exacty what I did but I I did a sprint across the Don on T13 and AG "A" and "B" appeared. I swiftly retreated before T18 as 2 Pz Corps were at risk. My intent was to hose up my opponents rail plan as ther are a few key RR and junctions. AG "A" and "B" HQ's were a surprise that i actually didn't notice until I was putting down Fort Zones. They were there on T14. 1.03 Beta 4. May have a save if anyone really cares :)


According to the rules (pg 148), if the Germans take Azov, Bataysk and Manych or March 43 occurs, the HQ's show up. Guessing you got those cities.



Farfarer61 -> RE: What to do about command points for AGC & AGS (2/13/2011 11:58:14 PM)

Aah, just go a bit beyond Rostov - the rest was not needed. This is like an Easter Egg for the southern strategy, save that it is published in a large manual :) Checked my T13 save. Thanks.



Mehring -> RE: What to do about command points for AGC & AGS (2/16/2011 6:11:06 PM)

I think Panther Games has a much better command structure in games such as CotA. A combat unit can be attached to any level of command, as in WitE, but attaching one to a lower level HQ RELIEVES the HHQ of SOME of its command burdon, expressed as a smaller reduction of its command capacity. This really amkes sense to me. Having a combat unit exert the same burdon on an HHQ whatever level HQ the unit is attached to, most definitely does not.



FredSanford3 -> RE: What to do about command points for AGC & AGS (2/17/2011 1:08:15 AM)

I'm putting my Panzer Groups/Armies under OKH.  They lose a layer of die rolls, but (a) they are staffed with the best corps and army leaders already, (b) they tend to be far from Army Group HQ's anyhow, at least on attack, and (c) lets me treat them as true strategic assets not tied to a particular front.

Army Group Anton = Commander of the Security/LOC control & construction (AG's and OKH get tons of CB's also).  Maybe gets the Rumainian field armies if the AG A/B split is delayed.



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