RE: Price presentation moan

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Phatguy -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 11:00:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 7th Somersets quote: Maybe you could add something to the main page stating that there is not VAT on, that should cover you. Everyone seems to be ignoring the HMRC view that it is a legal requirement to show prices inclusive of vat to consumers. I don't (directly) deal with tax law, but from my other legal dealings with HMRC I have a pretty good idea what their stance will be on this issue. I would not assume that it is an optional requirement. It depends where the Matrix store page actually originates from. If its in the USA then they don't have to do it and could just make you pay VAT like in the olden days.Once you received the product you had to pay the VAT. it might be enough that eventually it reaches the page that does include the VAT and that it is paid. Eventually the gub'mint gets their pound of flesh.I believe the EU law on inter-country commerce might have some stuff about this kind of thing and I think it supercedes the various individual country codes but I might be wrong on everything I wrote though..........

E -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 11:41:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 7th Somersets I don't (directly) deal with tax law, but from my other legal dealings with HMRC I have a pretty good idea what their stance will be on this issue. That their citizens are breaking the law by going to non-UK sites to purchase items? grin

Obsolete -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 3:11:41 PM)
quote: I think you were thinking of Income Tax Wodin. Value Added Tax (VAT) was first charged in 1973. Its just another way for the government to take our hard earned, but is supposed to progressive (I think was the economics phrase?) - because it is not charged on certain basic items like childrens clothes - but is used for supposed luxury things - so does not dis-advantage the not so well off. Or something like that..... Well, IMHO the vat is just another excuse to take the people's money like you said.... so they can donate their $9+ billion (no exaggeration here) dollars away to tyranical nations like Israel, and the like, not to mention the secret budget bonuses that are gifted away to these governments against humanity. And yes, you heard me right, these are all gifts, donations, they are NOT LOANS. They are NOT low interest, or INTEREST FREE LOANS, these are, for all intense and purposes, just money the U.S. government gifts way EVERY YEAR at the taxpayer's expense. Yet the people let themselves get raped for it, despite the American education is so low they can't even get on the top 10% bracket. It sure would be nice if the U.S. could take care of their own economy first, and put that money into their educational system, don't you think? After all, if they are funding the bill.... Anyhow, before I go on another rant in that direction, the VAT I believe is regressive, not progressive. At least that's what I remember back in Economics 101. The problem is that the poor income family who scrapes by on 30$ G a year, spends most his cash on items which are under a form of VAT. The guy who brings home 100$ K a year, may also spend roughly about 30K of that on similar items, and hence pay the same amount of vat, HOWEVER, the rest of his cash can be spent on investments and other securities which don't fall under VAT and hence, according to theory by the Tax-Man, is getting a bit of a free ride somewhere in there, despite the higher brackets.

warspite1 -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 3:34:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Obsolete Anyhow, before I go on another rant in that direction, the VAT I believe is regressive, not progressive. At least that's what I remember back in Economics 101. Warspite1 Not according to our Chancellor of the Exchequer - apparently he thinks it's a progressive tax. Personally I don't care one way or another - it's too high whatever it is [;)]

Lützow -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 4:12:45 PM)
Just stick to digital downloads and pretend to live elsewhere. VAT problem solved. [:D]

Obsolete -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 5:00:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: Obsolete Anyhow, before I go on another rant in that direction, the VAT I believe is regressive, not progressive. At least that's what I remember back in Economics 101. Warspite1 Not according to our Chancellor of the Exchequer - apparently he thinks it's a progressive tax. Personally I don't care one way or another - it's too high whatever it is [;)] Hmm! Well I did some checking up with the CRA now to make sure... quote: TRANSACTION TAX CONCEPTS The goods and services tax is a tax on consumption similar to "value-added taxes” (VAT) used in other countries. It was introduced in Canada in 1991 and is legislated in the Excise Tax Act (ETA). It originally replaced the Federal Sales Tax (FST) of 12% on goods produced or manufactured in Canada and on imported goods. The FST was a hidden tax, buried in the price the final consumer paid. It placed goods manufactured in Canada at a competitive disadvantage for exporting...- Maybe your Chancellor of the Exchequer should read this: quote: Other forms of taxation, such as sales taxes, are generally considered to be less equitable and often described as “regressive” taxes in that they represent a greater relative burden to lower-income persons, as most if not all of their income or resources are generally used to buy basic supplies such as food, shelter, transportation, etc (i.e. “non-discretionary” expenses). By contrast, individuals with a higher income would generally tend to use a smaller proportion of their entire income for non-discretionary expenses. The greater the income, the greater the proportion available for discretionary expenses, such as vacations, luxury items, savings/investments.

diablo1 -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 5:09:43 PM)
Wow how is this "political" thread lasting so long? [:)]

warspite1 -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 5:32:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Obsolete quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: Obsolete Anyhow, before I go on another rant in that direction, the VAT I believe is regressive, not progressive. At least that's what I remember back in Economics 101. Warspite1 Not according to our Chancellor of the Exchequer - apparently he thinks it's a progressive tax. Personally I don't care one way or another - it's too high whatever it is [;)] Hmm! Well I did some checking up with the CRA now to make sure... quote: TRANSACTION TAX CONCEPTS The goods and services tax is a tax on consumption similar to "value-added taxes” (VAT) used in other countries. It was introduced in Canada in 1991 and is legislated in the Excise Tax Act (ETA). It originally replaced the Federal Sales Tax (FST) of 12% on goods produced or manufactured in Canada and on imported goods. The FST was a hidden tax, buried in the price the final consumer paid. It placed goods manufactured in Canada at a competitive disadvantage for exporting...- Maybe your Chancellor of the Exchequer should read this: quote: Other forms of taxation, such as sales taxes, are generally considered to be less equitable and often described as “regressive” taxes in that they represent a greater relative burden to lower-income persons, as most if not all of their income or resources are generally used to buy basic supplies such as food, shelter, transportation, etc (i.e. “non-discretionary” expenses). By contrast, individuals with a higher income would generally tend to use a smaller proportion of their entire income for non-discretionary expenses. The greater the income, the greater the proportion available for discretionary expenses, such as vacations, luxury items, savings/investments. Warspite1 Yep - maybe he should [;)]. My earlier post was never meant to be political, but was simply trying to answer ilovestrategy's question and putting wodin right on an incorrect comment.

NefariousKoel -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 6:17:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Josh How did this thread become political within five posts? LOL Unfortunately because many feel that the VAT tax is wrong. I certainly think it's robbery, and I live in the US. God help whichever politician pushes a VAT through, here, as they've been murmuring about for awhile.

2ndACR -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 6:24:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Obsolete Well, IMHO the vat is just another excuse to take the people's money like you said.... so they can donate their $9+ billion (no exaggeration here) dollars away to tyranical nations like Israel, and the like, not to mention the secret budget bonuses that are gifted away to these governments against humanity. Boy, can you even answer a question or make a statement without sniping from the safety of the Mosque. Your worse than Terminus. His comments are just short little shots, you post crap like this. How about you go to some forum where you will have to defend that crap.

Mobeer -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 7:10:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bairdlander Are the prices in US currency? I see all prices like "GBP 16.99". This is when not logged in, and also rather curiously, I cannot see anywhere to chose a currency other than GBP. I wonder if the store tries to guess my location from my IP Address and change the currency to match?

Wolfe1759 -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 7:20:18 PM)
Recently (ie a week or two ago) I bought WitE (physical version) and thought I'd just check what I'd paid compared to the "sticker" price WitE price in the store (for physical and free download) = £59.99 What I paid - £59.99 + £4.25 (shipping) = £64.24 Then I looked at what I would have paid for d/l only - £52.99 + £10.60 (VAT) = £63.59 So it looks like you don't get charged any VAT at all if you order a physical copy of the game but do at 20% if you buy a download only. My tip if you are thinking of buying WitE (or for that matter proably anything else) and you are in the UK - get the physical version as for your extra 65p you will get a nice CD with your name on it, a manual and a box to put them both in !

ezzler -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 8:10:55 PM)
VAT is chargeable on all UK imports with a value of £18 or higher.{outside of EU}. Now, customs don't always charge this, but often they do. It depends on what the customs label says. If an item is shipped and the customs label had a value of £65 then you MAY be liable for a 20% VAT tax PLUS another £8 handling charge from Royal mail. Not every time, but often enough. I've been caught out before.

Wolfe1759 -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 10:07:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ezz VAT is chargeable on all UK imports with a value of £18 or higher.{outside of EU}. As Plimus (the Matrix store opperator) distributes from Germany (ie within the EU) would it be liable for VAT ? Or have I just got lucky in this instance.

ilovestrategy -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 11:28:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: diablo1 Wow how is this "political" thread lasting so long? [:)] Because no one has explained to me yet what VAT is. [:D] Seriously though, from what I've gathered, it looks to be some kind of luxury tax. Do we have anything here in the States that is comparable to it?

Obsolete -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 11:55:47 PM)
quote: Do we have anything here in the States that is comparable to it? It depends on who you ask and the way you look at it. As far as the U.S. government sees it from their viewpoint, on paper, technically they argue they don't really have something in place that mimmicks the VAT in details, and hence this has now given them a license to propose yet another tax upon the people. And it looks like this NEW tax will be added on pretty soon, which has been argued the people should just bear it since it will help stop the economy from spiraling down as fast as it has been going. At least in theory! The other arguement is it will do nothing at all to slow down the debt accumulation to what is already a 3'rd world economy, and right now the U.S. can't afford to be pushing even more taxes and cuts on the people left who are managing to hold jobs. Corporations in America are already the highest taxed in the world BTW.

wworld7 -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/18/2011 12:29:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy Because no one has explained to me yet what VAT is. [:D] There are much better than this site places to find factual information on such subjects (not Wiki). Google is a good place as any to start a search.

E -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/18/2011 12:39:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: diablo1 Wow how is this "political" thread lasting so long? [:)] Because only one person has really tried to make it political (and one fell for the baiting). The rest are really just commiserating. What I don't understand is how any government got away with calling it a "VALUE ADDED" Tax. Aren't "Value Added" and "Tax" mutually exclusive terms?

Yogi the Great -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/18/2011 1:00:32 AM)
A better term would be value subtracted. Some plans could suggest this tax be added at each step along the way. manufactuer/grower sells to assembler/packager (tax added) who sells to wholesale distributer (tax added) who sells to retail distributer (tax added) who sells to consumer (tax added) A way for ever expanding government to raise enough money for their programs as tax is produced/multiplied at each step along the way instead of one time tax when purchasing. However VAT is set up, the end result like most taxes is higher cost to consumers of the products subject to the tax. Considering the topic, it is natural to assume that this thread will eventually be shut down for being a prohibited political discussion that could become heated at some point. Anyway I am trying with this post not to take political sides or accuse certain persons or parties of being wrong. It like some others is just trying to describe in some form what VAT is/does and not meant to make judgement about it's merit or lack there of.

madgamer2 -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/18/2011 3:39:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: parusski Your fault for living in the stupid VAT European Union. Or at least for letting your politicians shackle you with such an insidious tax. the USA invented the income tax and paper money following/during the civil war as a "temporary" measure. They tax us for everything except the air we breath so I do not think the VAT is all that bad. Just a different way of the government getting there share. Madgamer

Jeffrey H. -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/18/2011 3:45:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: madgamer2 quote: ORIGINAL: parusski Your fault for living in the stupid VAT European Union. Or at least for letting your politicians shackle you with such an insidious tax. the USA invented the income tax and paper money following/during the civil war as a "temporary" measure. They tax us for everything except the air we breath so I do not think the VAT is all that bad. Just a different way of the government getting there share. Madgamer And now that the EPA has classified the exhaled gas from your lungs as a pollutant and has joined the president in a call for regulation of the gasses in your exhaled breath, we are just moments away from them taxing the air you breathe.

E -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/18/2011 4:00:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: madgamer2 I do not think the VAT is all that bad. You should try paying it sometime, before saying something that [Expletive Deleted]. All philosophies aside, their VAT rate is horrendous.

Obsolete -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/18/2011 7:11:18 AM)
quote: You should try paying it sometime, before saying something that [Expletive Deleted]. I do end up paying it all the time... well unless it's groceries or other basic needs :P And while it can seem painful at times, at least I like to look at places like Sweeden which IIRC have to pay 1/4 the whole price just in vat (ouch!). That really doesn't make me FEEL as bad when taken into consideration. Now, to the Original thread poster, I suppose if the VAT due to Matrix-Games titles is being crippling, you could try to incorporate your home-gaming room, and then see about deducting your game expenses that way :P The only hitch is you may be in the hot-seat when you get an audit notice in the mail by Mr. Tax-Man.

jomni -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/18/2011 7:41:37 AM)
quote: quote: Do we have anything here in the States that is comparable to it? In the US, you have Sales Tax. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States

Phatguy -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/18/2011 2:51:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jomni quote: quote: Do we have anything here in the States that is comparable to it? In the US, you have Sales Tax. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States But its not so bad....Some states have none while others(cough,cough, NY) are ridiculous.

Hartford688 -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/18/2011 6:24:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great A better term would be value subtracted. Some plans could suggest this tax be added at each step along the way. manufactuer/grower sells to assembler/packager (tax added) who sells to wholesale distributer (tax added) who sells to retail distributer (tax added) who sells to consumer (tax added). A way for ever expanding government to raise enough money for their programs as tax is produced/multiplied at each step along the way instead of one time tax when purchasing. However VAT is set up, the end result like most taxes is higher cost to consumers of the products subject to the tax. Well in Europe the impact is of course that the cost to the end consumer is higher (i've never seen a tax that makes it cheaper) but the "each step of the way"is not how it works (though I realise you are positing a scenario how it could work in some jurisdiction). Until the end consumer, each company (registered for VAT) can recover the VAT it suffers on its purchases, but then charges VAT on to its customer. the amount of the tax increases as it moves on the chain because as each company processes it ("adds value") the base cost upon which the tax % is applied increases. So the final consumer (who does not sell on) has to eat the tax. the tax is not cumulative, but increases as suppliers "add value". And for the progressive bit, at least in the UK the tax leaves out certain "non luxuries". To quote from wikipedia: quote: The third largest source of government revenues is value added tax (VAT), charged at 20% on supplies of goods and services. It is therefore a tax on consumer expenditure. Certain goods and services are exempt from VAT, and others are subject to VAT at a lower rate of 5% (the reduced rate, such as domestic gas supplies) or 0% ("zero-rated", such as most food and children's clothing).[25] Exemptions are intended to relieve the tax burden on essentials while placing the full tax on luxuries, but disputes based on fine distinctions arise, such as the notorious "Jaffa Cake Case" which hinged on whether Jaffa Cakes were classed as (zero-rated) cakes—as was eventually decided—or (fully-taxed) chocolate-covered biscuits. Until 2001, VAT was charged at the full rate on sanitary towels. I particularly like that the UK treats books as essentials, and so no VAT. Sadly the Dutch do charge (albeit at a reduced rate) when I import here from Amazon UK.

RangerX3X -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/19/2011 6:16:12 AM)
If I lived in Europe I would be more concerned about the Muslim people cramming themselves into enclaves and purposely failing to assimilate so they can use your own laws against you in order to bring about Sharia ad nauseum, than your VAT issues. Either way, you gents are toast.

Hartford688 -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/19/2011 7:38:09 AM)
I take it you obsess on this in any thread on any subject involving Europeans?

warspite1 -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/19/2011 8:20:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RangerX3X If I lived in Europe I would be more concerned about the Muslim people cramming themselves into enclaves and purposely failing to assimilate so they can use your own laws against you in order to bring about Sharia ad nauseum, than your VAT issues. Either way, you gents are toast. Warspite1 Boring..... Apart from wanting the thread locked, what was the point of posting that comment here?

E -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/19/2011 8:28:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Apart from wanting the thread locked, what was the point of posting that comment here? You honestly can't recognize old fashioned trolling? grin

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