Is May Spring in Kharkov? (Full Version)

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junk2drive -> Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/20/2011 1:51:37 PM)

I'm adding grass and brush to the original Kharkov maps and we seem to have a debate as to what the terrain looks like in May.
Winter has ended and the ground has thawed and is muddy.

Is there spring green new growth or is it still the leftover dead remains of last year?



KEYSTONE07950 -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/20/2011 4:40:08 PM)

Maybe your semi-competitors at Graviteam (Achtung Panzer Kharkov 1943) know? [:)]



gijas17 -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/20/2011 8:22:32 PM)

Good call, Keystone light. I own Achtung Panzer and the Kharkov campaign takes place in March which is winter for that area. Some maps even have deep snow. But May should be a bit warmer very typical of spring in the northern US. I live in Ohio and in May our grass is usually green, trees have leaves on them, etc. Most of our blossoms take place in April. Kharkov is farther north I think probably more similar to Michigan's or Wisconsin's climate.



Josh -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/20/2011 8:33:11 PM)

I did a long search in Google, didn't find much info though. Then I started searching photo websites, got much more results.
Take this one for example, but there should be much more on sites such as Flickr:

[img]http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/36731139.jpg[/img]

That's 13 June unfortunately, a few weeks later and much more green.

[img]http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/35964266.jpg[/img]

23-5-2010, so that would be May, pretty green already.

Here's the result for "Kharkov" at Panoramio: http://www.panoramio.com/map/#lt%3D49.937411%26ln%3D36.228619%26z%3D4%26k%3D2%26a%3D1%26tab%3D1



Josh -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/20/2011 8:41:04 PM)

Another example in Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nundesign/2512787179/

That's May 2008.
It certainly looks like Spring there, I tell you that.



junk2drive -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/20/2011 8:42:04 PM)

Thanks



KEYSTONE07950 -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/20/2011 9:23:58 PM)

Kharkov

a visitors guide to eastern Ukraine

* Home
* photos

Average temperatures in Kharkov

Below you can find details of the average temperatures in Kharkov Ukraine:
Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun
High -3 -2 4 14 20 25
Low -8.5 -8 -3 5 10 14
Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
High 26 25 20 12 3.5 -1
Low 15 14 9 4 -2 -6
Rainfall

Rainfall in Kharkov
Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun
mm 44 32 27 36 47 58
Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
mm 60 50 41 35 44 45
Winter in Kharkov
Winter in Kharkov

The Kharkov winter usually starts in December with snowfall until mid March. Westerly winds frequently cause a temporary light thaw which soon re freezes.

It is not unusual for snowfall to reach several feet in depth during the typical 130 day winter.
Summer Weather

The summer weather in Eastern Ukraine is usually mild/warm with temperatures in the mid 20's, however in June 2010 temperatures reached a staggering 36° which is almost unheard of in this part of the world. Checkout this screenshot from Google.
Summary

Khakov's weather is described as continental and moderate with cold winters with significant snowfall while summertime is warm but not frequently hot.

The driest month is March and the warmest is July.

Please visit our kharkov winter photo gallery to see more images.



Seydlitz69 -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/22/2011 8:48:57 AM)

Here are also great pics from russian landscape

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/showthread.php?822-Russian-landscape-gallery



junk2drive -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/22/2011 1:34:44 PM)

Here is what Erik had to say in our dev forum

quote:

With regards to Kharkov and grass, remember that this was the Spring after the record Winter that devastated the German army. When we did the Kharkov game, I did find a photograph of what things looked like around that time. The grass was still short, the ground was still a bit wet and muddy and it basically looked like the thaw and the mud season had just ended, but that things hadn't yet transitioned fully and completely into Spring. It was more like what you would expect from April. If I can find that, I will upload it, but in general I would tend towards making the growth a bit shorter than it would be in the average May.

Regards,

- Erik


I have put a moderate amount of .5 meter greenery in open terrain, sparse short grass in fields, mixed undergrowth in woods.



junk2drive -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/22/2011 1:37:49 PM)

Like this

[image]local://upfiles/6955/3AD5F60CD5C942C59EA5774561F14AB2.jpg[/image]



junk2drive -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/22/2011 1:38:31 PM)

And this

[image]local://upfiles/6955/72C067F8921748BFBA90BC45BEBD7B92.jpg[/image]



junk2drive -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/22/2011 1:39:27 PM)

and this

[image]local://upfiles/6955/428E43D3CB1243CC80D4978327280012.jpg[/image]



Josh -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/22/2011 3:08:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Here is what Erik had to say in our dev forum

quote:

With regards to Kharkov and grass, remember that this was the Spring after the record Winter that devastated the German army. When we did the Kharkov game, I did find a photograph of what things looked like around that time. The grass was still short, the ground was still a bit wet and muddy and it basically looked like the thaw and the mud season had just ended, but that things hadn't yet transitioned fully and completely into Spring. It was more like what you would expect from April. If I can find that, I will upload it, but in general I would tend towards making the growth a bit shorter than it would be in the average May.

Regards,

- Erik


I have put a moderate amount of .5 meter greenery in open terrain, sparse short grass in fields, mixed undergrowth in woods.



Well exactly what I was thinking. The photo's from websites such as Flickr and such, show you May as it has been for the last few years (since recent digital photography actually). Very green and lush, much more green than I would expect from May in Kharkov.
So I'd say you hit the right spot there with you latest screenshots.
Excellent, gives one just the right feeling, sort of... "it could've been like this".
Well done.



heinrich55 -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/22/2011 11:49:36 PM)

J2D,
I'd concur with Josh on that. My impression from reading about what was going on during that time was that there were difficulties in maneuver due to the ground just starting to firm up from that brutal winter. Tanks with wider tracks did okay, but the ones with narrow tracks had to be really careful.

Loved the screen shoots. I think they convey that time frame very well.

Heinrich55



firedrake -> RE: Is May Spring in Kharkov? (2/23/2011 1:05:03 PM)

Yes, it is very difficult to find evidence and accounts regarding the weather conditions and seasons when the Germans had good or reasonable weather or ground conditions. I read that one of the reasons why the Germans changed the TO&E for more halftracks in recon was because of the ground conditions in spring 1942. Understandable if anybody seen the footage of the motorcycle troops and armoured cars trying get out of the mud.



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