Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (Full Version)

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Ascended -> Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/20/2011 9:44:31 PM)

The price for me represents 6 months of my PC game budget.

I realize that is not the usual case, but that's my situation and perhaps not far from others. Who knows.

So what I wanted to suggest was the release of a demo in the form of perhaps the Kursk operation or something equally well known.

All you'd have to do is make the game start with only one scenario and then put a turn time limit on the game.



2ndACR -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/20/2011 10:06:02 PM)

They have not done Demo's in my memory.

But trust us when we say you probably won't spend another dime on another game for a couple years. LOL

I have all of 2by3 games except World at War......and still play all of them regularly. They are pricey games, but also have to remember that the first War In Russia by Gary G cost about 79 bucks way back when it was first released. So the actual cost has not even gone up in all these years.



Gonnosuke -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/21/2011 1:11:51 AM)

When a game retails for $80 a demo should be standard operating procedure. I've wasted many a dollar based on the rave reviews of people eager to justify their own expenditures and gaming websites/magazines that are afraid to issue a negative review lest they anger a major source of advertising.

One man's paradise, is another man's overly complex micro-management hell. With a demo, I don't have to take a leap of faith.



2ndACR -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/21/2011 1:21:14 AM)

I will not be able to convince you. If Gary Grigsby, Joel Billings, 2by3 Games and Matrix Games does not incite you to buy, not sure what will. 



Klydon -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/21/2011 3:21:06 AM)

Part of the issue with demos is they take resources to come up with and that also increases costs. Same for big time tutorials.

The other way around "reviews" and such is to take a look at actual player feed back and ratings. There are plenty of posts here to read over and give a potential purchaser a feel for the game and an idea on how things are going with the game in terms of changes, issues, etc. The boards here are very open about such matters. There are also other sources of reviews and player feedback if you feel "the books are cooked" here as well.



pompack -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/21/2011 3:37:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gonnosuke

When a game retails for $80 a demo should be standard operating procedure. I've wasted many a dollar based on the rave reviews of people eager to justify their own expenditures and gaming websites/magazines that are afraid to issue a negative review lest they anger a major source of advertising.

One man's paradise, is another man's overly complex micro-management hell. With a demo, I don't have to take a leap of faith.



pity



paullus99 -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/21/2011 4:20:12 AM)

I don't think it would even be possible to detach a single scenario outside of the game engine - since it is such a complex & intricate game. Once you have the game, you have the game.



jomni -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/21/2011 8:03:14 AM)

Can't you just release the exact same installer with just one scenario file.



Gandalf -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/21/2011 12:38:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Can't you just release the exact same installer with just one scenario file.



Yeah, right... Then all they have to do is get their friends or whomever to send them the other scenarios...

Demos are cool if you have a large resource team to spare for the demo development. If your resources are tied up squashing bugs and tidying up the original game and making changes that render a demo moot what's the poin?. These threads here are "demo" enough. If someone can't make up their mind from reading them there's no demo gonna make a difference anyhow.



Tarhunnas -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/21/2011 2:47:05 PM)

I doesn't have to be all that much work to do a demo. It's mainly a question of removing some code to disable for example the save game function, add a line that makes the game end after a few turns, only make it select one scenario etc. This can be done with conditional compiles. The real drag is maintaining the demo and its installation package if you want it to reflect further changes, but in most cases that won't be necessary, as a demo with v 1.00 is usually sufficient.

This does not mean that i presume to have any ideas on how 2by3 or Matrix should spend their time and resources, it is just an observation based on my own experience.



Panama -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/21/2011 3:04:51 PM)

Other very complex expensive games have demos. Two games by Stormeagle Studios are good examples. Both of their Distant Guns releases. I wouldn't have bought either without the demo. A small company with limited resources yet they did it. Matrix is larger than they. A demo for a very expensive game is not unreasonable.



gids -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/21/2011 3:09:23 PM)

if you read the forums,and all the AARS and youre still not convinced,its a good game where they still give massive support to,then nothing will convince you ......just buy it already mate,its a game that you will play for years to come.i do mostly PBEM games now and i have tremendous amounts of fun and learning



Rosseau -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/22/2011 3:31:23 AM)

I don't think a demo is coming.

If $80 is truly the OP's six month budget, than he does have a very good point. I have WitE, and happy with it. But depending on the type of gamer you are, you can get a lot of very good discounted games for $80 these days. If you are an East Front grognard, have the time to commit to PBEM, then WitE can do it. But six months is a long time to not buy another game...



jomni -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/22/2011 4:53:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gandalf


quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Can't you just release the exact same installer with just one scenario file.



Yeah, right... Then all they have to do is get their friends or whomever to send them the other scenarios...



Prates will go for the full game that demos.



Razz1 -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/23/2011 2:27:12 AM)

They need to issue a Demo.



Theng -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/23/2011 2:17:25 PM)

I'd rather have them focus on bug fixes than a demo, but then I bought already the game. Grigsby games are by now a known quantity. You generally know what you will get, so there are only few people that sit on the fence about buying that could be swayed by a demo. Also, just look at how skinny 2by3 is in terms of manpower. Getting a demo set up will tie up those people for quite some time and piss off the religious buyers who are used to a certain level of after-sales support. There is more downside with this than there is upside.



Commanderski -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (2/23/2011 2:18:28 PM)

I just thought I would throw in my opinion on this. I first read about this game over 10 years ago when it was first in developmentand have been waiting for it ever since. I read an AAR in the online issue of Armchair General in December, went to this site and after looking through the forum, product info and screenshots bought it that day. For this type of game I think there is more than enough information available in the forums thru screen shots, AAR's etc for somebody to determine if this is their type of game.

I would rather have the development team spend their time on continuing to make improvements rather than creating a demo. Alot of game companies do have demo's but the reason for most is to determine if your system can support the game. This game saved me from buying a new computer. This is my first Matrix game and will not be my last.



Ascended -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/11/2011 5:55:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

I will not be able to convince you. If Gary Grigsby, Joel Billings, 2by3 Games and Matrix Games does not incite you to buy, not sure what will. 


A demo. :P

Seriously, it makes sense even if you're just looking at it from a "lets make the most money" perspective.

I'm a pretty hardcore wargamer and I won't buy it on the name. We exist.



Ascended -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/11/2011 5:57:22 PM)

quote:

If someone can't make up their mind from reading them there's no demo gonna make a difference anyhow.


Um, Hello?



Ascended -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/11/2011 5:58:54 PM)

quote:


I would rather have the development team spend their time on continuing to make improvements rather than creating a demo.


I don't blame you for that. Once you have the game you don't benefit at all from the production diversion.






Ascended -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/11/2011 6:02:36 PM)

I have a proposal for those of you who say you're certain I'll love the game for years to come.

Buy me the game.

If I like it, I'll pay you your money back. If I find I don't, I'll return the license to you and you'll have yourself an extra copy of the game.

No?

See...



Aurelian -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/11/2011 8:38:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

Other very complex expensive games have demos. Two games by Stormeagle Studios are good examples. Both of their Distant Guns releases. I wouldn't have bought either without the demo. A small company with limited resources yet they did it. Matrix is larger than they. A demo for a very expensive game is not unreasonable.


And would you buy this game if the demo did nothing more than play the tutorial? I don't remember the demo for Jutland or Distant Guns allowing more than ship vs ship actions.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/11/2011 9:57:05 PM)

Maybe instead of a full-blown demo people can watch a video of WITE gameplay.  I believe there's already a demo video on U-tube for WITE.  Lemme go check.  I'm back....yep, there is one.  I watched it and I'm not sure but what that won't whet the appetite of war gamers everywhere.   



bairdlander2 -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/11/2011 10:00:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xian

Grigsby games are by now a known quantity. You generally know what you will get

Then how do you explain WaW.It was the one of the worst games I ever purchased and as can be seen it has been discontinued,so a good name doesnt always guarentee good product.



Mynok -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/11/2011 10:18:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ascended

I have a proposal for those of you who say you're certain I'll love the game for years to come.

Buy me the game.

If I like it, I'll pay you your money back. If I find I don't, I'll return the license to you and you'll have yourself an extra copy of the game.

No?

See...


I'll take your bait. Done. PM me your email.

I bought the game solely on the basis of reading AARs and asking questions in the forums here. I've not been disappointed.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/11/2011 10:59:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander
Then how do you explain WaW.It was the one of the worst games I ever purchased and as can be seen it has been discontinued,so a good name doesnt always guarentee good product.


I can't let this pass - WAW really is an excellent game. Truely great design. In as much as game design involves abstraction, I would dare say WAW is even better or more advanced than WITE and WITP (and I played and play both of those for thousands of hours).

I understand that WAW is NOT repeat NOT a grognard game, and if you came to that game as a grognard of course you were disappointed. You simply should have read about the game in advance - it was clearly labelled as abstracted, beginner-to-intermediate, grand strategic game, where whole of WW2 can be played in 5-6 hour session. If you expected more detail than that hey tough luck, but it was always very clearly advertised....

Having in mind design goals of WAW that game is one of the best wargames ever made IMO. If 2by3's design goals didn't fit your own agenda or wishes in that particular case, that does not necessarilly make the game "bad". It works as designed, and is/was pretty bug free.



bairdlander2 -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/12/2011 3:20:49 AM)

I dont recall anything on the box saying anything like you just said.If its such a great title why discontinued and why was it on sale for $3 in the store I purchased from 3 months after I bought it.Face the facts it sucked.



bairdlander2 -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/12/2011 3:21:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I dont recall anything on the box saying anything like you just said.If its such a great title why discontinued and why was it on sale for $3 in the store I purchased from 3 months after I bought it.




Ascended -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/15/2011 6:47:37 PM)

Wow, done :)



Ascended -> RE: Please Gary/Matrix - a demo (3/15/2011 6:50:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I dont recall anything on the box saying anything like you just said.If its such a great title why discontinued and why was it on sale for $3 in the store I purchased from 3 months after I bought it.Face the facts it sucked.


Adam Smith. The Wealth of Nations. Did it suck? :)



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