Favorable Review at Wargamer! (Full Version)

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lordxorn -> Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/24/2011 6:00:50 AM)

A very good review from Wargamer by a non 4x player!

Good stuff Codeforce & Matrix!

http://www.wargamer.com/article/2987/distant-worlds-return-of-the-shakturi-



Data -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/24/2011 6:55:27 AM)

ohoo, nice one....I think we can expect new recruits after this [:)]



Cheese -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/24/2011 11:36:50 AM)

Nice



Zakhal -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/24/2011 12:33:15 PM)

Grats!

SotS and especially DW have convinced me of real-time battles in 4x games. Im having hard time going back to two first MoO games even if I wanted to. Battles in those games took ages and recuired endless amount of manual clicking especially in MoO2. Battles can still last in these new RT battle 4x games but you dont have to micromanage everything every ship does every turn in battle.



Data -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/24/2011 1:51:56 PM)

or hit auto and see them fail turn by turn



Grfin Zeppelin -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/24/2011 3:43:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

Grats!

SotS and especially DW have convinced me of real-time battles in 4x games. Im having hard time going back to two first MoO games even if I wanted to. Battles in those games took ages and recuired endless amount of manual clicking especially in MoO2. Battles can still last in these new RT battle 4x games but you dont have to micromanage everything every ship does every turn in battle.

I like DW and I was disapointed by Moo2 when it was released but its space battle system is unmatched even today



Zakhal -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/25/2011 1:48:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

Grats!

SotS and especially DW have convinced me of real-time battles in 4x games. Im having hard time going back to two first MoO games even if I wanted to. Battles in those games took ages and recuired endless amount of manual clicking especially in MoO2. Battles can still last in these new RT battle 4x games but you dont have to micromanage everything every ship does every turn in battle.

I like DW and I was disapointed by Moo2 when it was released but its space battle system is unmatched even today

I didnt mind it at first but after many games the battles started to feel as too much micro. That was my last thought when I quit playing the game som 10 years ago and never went back.



lordxorn -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/25/2011 3:09:14 AM)

That begs the question as to whether or not turn based tactical combat has a place in 4x games?

Maybe the best road would be to have a simulate battle, or take command which should satisfy both camps?

The reason I ask is because I am looking into ideas for my own game.



Abraxis -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/25/2011 4:06:51 AM)

I think it does, though it's hard to do, especially these days, as you're pretty much making two games.  Among my favorite games are X-Com (defense, terror and apocalypse), the Total war series (before empire, which was garbage), and Mount and Blade Warband.  Combining the tactical ground level strategy with the 'big picture' strategy really appeals to me, the battles are more intense because my grand strategy hinges on it, rather then some plot characters or narrative telling me why I'm supposed to care.  The grand strategy part is made more interesting because all those neat little gadgets I'm researching aren't just for a 5% bonus to this or that, they're going to be new toys for me to play around with in tactical.

Each one creates a context for the other and when done well, it works out really great imo.  I see no reason why that couldn't transition to the 4X genre.



Data -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/25/2011 8:16:18 AM)

your own game, lordxorn? are you developing one?
eta, patch eta, expansion eta .... [:D]



Zakhal -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/25/2011 9:56:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

That begs the question as to whether or not turn based tactical combat has a place in 4x games?

Maybe the best road would be to have a simulate battle, or take command which should satisfy both camps?

The reason I ask is because I am looking into ideas for my own game.

If youre doing your own Id suggest looking at VGA planets. It was one of the simplest yet best 4x games ever made. The successor was kind of failure so there is no heir to the throne. A mobile version might be interesting. I had som plans of my own about it in the past.

In planets tactical combat is automatic with video but you can give instructions to the ships that they will follow incase of battle. Strategic map portion is turn-based. The game works through pbem and supports up to 11 players in single game (compare i.e witp 2). One game could last years with players changing every now and then. My first game was actually with an empire that was allready loosing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Abraxis

I think it does, though it's hard to do, especially these days, as you're pretty much making two games. Among my favorite games are X-Com (defense, terror and apocalypse), the Total war series (before empire, which was garbage), and Mount and Blade Warband.

While tactical portion is detailed the strategic one is bit light in those.



Abraxis -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/25/2011 4:03:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal
While tactical portion is detailed the strategic one is bit light in those.



That's true, but they're also not 4Xs. I'd imagine if a 4X game did it the strategic aspect would have be filled out a lot more. Of course this is why I said it would be like making two games, it may be too much to ask, but it would be awesome



Wreck -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/25/2011 4:28:44 PM)

Turn-based tactical combat does have role in 4x; I enjoyed MoO2 just like everyone else. However, it is very hard to get the balance right in the absence of decent AI. If you give the player control and a complex combat system, he will be able to overcome ridiculous odds and beat an AI. Sometimes this is OK, but it tends to make the games feel wrong. It's no longer two huge empires slugging it out. It's one tiny empire running circles around a huge blundering one; once you get anywhere near the same size, you've won and might better start a new game.

Me, I prefer automated combat. This puts the focus on the strategic part of the game.



lordxorn -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/26/2011 8:10:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

quote:

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

That begs the question as to whether or not turn based tactical combat has a place in 4x games?

Maybe the best road would be to have a simulate battle, or take command which should satisfy both camps?

The reason I ask is because I am looking into ideas for my own game.

If youre doing your own Id suggest looking at VGA planets. It was one of the simplest yet best 4x games ever made. The successor was kind of failure so there is no heir to the throne. A mobile version might be interesting. I had som plans of my own about it in the past.

In planets tactical combat is automatic with video but you can give instructions to the ships that they will follow incase of battle. Strategic map portion is turn-based. The game works through pbem and supports up to 11 players in single game (compare i.e witp 2). One game could last years with players changing every now and then. My first game was actually with an empire that was allready loosing.


I think I checked out VGA Planets, before and if I am not mistaken there is no AI? That was the biggest turn off for me, as I have no patience for a PBEM game! lol.

However I think developing an AI would be the biggest obstacle for me, so yeah it is more of a business idea right now for me. I am researching around and making it will even be a 4x type of game.

I really like Aurora but believe it could benefit from a better UI, and more graphics. So that may be something I am striving for.




Data -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/26/2011 8:53:08 AM)

Aurora would definitly benefit from better UI and more graphics. Afaik it's work in progress there also...as it is now I could not play it even for a few minutes. Hope it gets there eventually, seems to be a good game overall.



tofudog -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/26/2011 8:55:43 AM)

Well hello there lordxorn!

My internet came back on just to show me the mind behind the black mask is no different from the rest of us and dreaming up his own 4x :).
And as far as I can tell, the AI has been the biggest obstacle for everybody else, so you are in exalted company - donīt let that bother you too much.

If you are still taking ideas on the strat/tac thing I personally have enjoyed Dom3 with its hands off approach (battle orders are scripted beforehand and after it happened you can watch the turn-based battle to see what chaos your plans devolved to - for the few who somehow managed not to know Dom3 by now), wish RTW had such a feature instead of the almighty freeze-bar.

I guess that is my answer: Turn based or real time is tuna or olives, you might even mix them as long as you get the rest of the pizza straight.







Zakhal -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/26/2011 4:48:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lordxorn
I think I checked out VGA Planets, before and if I am not mistaken there is no AI? That was the biggest turn off for me, as I have no patience for a PBEM game! lol.

However I think developing an AI would be the biggest obstacle for me, so yeah it is more of a business idea right now for me. I am researching around and making it will even be a 4x type of game.

I really like Aurora but believe it could benefit from a better UI, and more graphics. So that may be something I am striving for.

Planets has no AI but it has continious 11 player multiplayer. Turns are processed even if one player misses giving orders. And if one player quits another can easily replace him. It works very well.

Of course you can devote to creating AI but then you must limit the options to the player so that the game is not too complex. Too many interesting 4x games have failed due to poor AI.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tofudog
If you are still taking ideas on the strat/tac thing I personally have enjoyed Dom3 with its hands off approach (battle orders are scripted beforehand and after it happened you can watch the turn-based battle to see what chaos your plans devolved to - for the few who somehow managed not to know Dom3 by now), wish RTW had such a feature instead of the almighty freeze-bar.

Dom3 is actually similar to VGA planets. Both are indy and share similar stuff from the battles to the multiplayer. Kind of like fantasy version except with AI. Its easier to create AI for dom3 though since units move between provinces instead of x,y dots between space.

The new sword of the stars actually has provinces. Ive seen one picture of it too.



Shark7 -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/26/2011 4:58:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tofudog

Well hello there lordxorn!

My internet came back on just to show me the mind behind the black mask is no different from the rest of us and dreaming up his own 4x :).
And as far as I can tell, the AI has been the biggest obstacle for everybody else, so you are in exalted company - donīt let that bother you too much.

If you are still taking ideas on the strat/tac thing I personally have enjoyed Dom3 with its hands off approach (battle orders are scripted beforehand and after it happened you can watch the turn-based battle to see what chaos your plans devolved to - for the few who somehow managed not to know Dom3 by now), wish RTW had such a feature instead of the almighty freeze-bar.

I guess that is my answer: Turn based or real time is tuna or olives, you might even mix them as long as you get the rest of the pizza straight.







I spent years dreaming of the perfect 4x game. Lucky for me, Elliot seems to have had the same ideas. [:)]



Data -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/26/2011 6:40:20 PM)

That's what happens when a gamer does it.....most of us lack the tools, we are certainly never short on ideas.



J HG T -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/26/2011 6:58:54 PM)

Imagine the perfect world where every gamer is able to create whatever games they want. That's both very, very interesting and very, very scary gaming world we'd be living in. 



Data -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/26/2011 8:06:16 PM)

That world is called a holodeck [:)]



mbar -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/26/2011 10:04:05 PM)

Or your dreams. The original holodeck.



Data -> RE: Favorable Review at Wargamer! (2/27/2011 7:24:31 AM)

amen to that, brother



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