Rebellions because you're at war with their species (Full Version)

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bonesbro -> Rebellions because you're at war with their species (2/25/2011 1:59:24 AM)

The happiness penalty for being at war with a colony's species is really, really awful. I just went to war with the Naxillians. Mopped the floor with them. But the last half hour of the war was extremely aggravating, as every time I took over a colony it would immediately have a -31 penalty. Frequently the militia forces were substantially larger than the original garrison on the planet. This led to an extremely frustrating manual hunt for troop transports across my empire to manually load troops at specific colonies. "Load from nearest colony" would grab the garrison troops from my newly conquered planets, and in every single case that resulted in the planet rebelling before my troop transport left orbit. It was really, really frustrating.

I've watched homeworlds go into rebellion seconds after I conquer them and spawn 50 troops instantly. I was watching for the invasion message and I still wasn't able to pause quickly enough to drop the taxes to zero to counter the huge happiness penalty I knew was coming.

But here's the worst example: An empire of my own race just declared war on me. Within about a minute, the majority of my planets went into rebellion. That's game breaking.

Please fix this.



Data -> RE: Rebellions because you're at war with their species (2/25/2011 8:19:00 AM)

welcome to the community bonesbro
do you have a save game to upload to Matrix's ftp? I'm a gamer just like you but I think there are a number of us who'd like to see this happen and maybe find a way around it



Merker -> RE: Rebellions because you're at war with their species (2/25/2011 8:21:42 AM)

I've never had this problem while playing the original DW. Are you playing ROTS?
There are multiple factors that can cause huge unhappiness and rebellions like that. Do you have the taxes on auto? Is your empire reputation really bad? Are your wars really long?
I usually have my taxes on auto which immediately drops the tax rate to minimum on conquered worlds. Also, I try to maintain at least a satisfactory reputation. Also, as my wars extend the AI drops the tax rate on all worlds gradually to prevent rebellion, that's probably why this kind of situation never came up, even on worlds without garrisons, even when fighting empires of the same race...
Some government types like military dictatorship also drop the happiness quite a bit. What's your government type? it matters A LOT, depending on race, as each race seems to work better with a certain government type

I've seen what you talk about happen to the AI though, but not for all empires. Example from my gameplay experience: human empire with dubious reputation and constant conflict with the neighbors split in 3 in less than 6 months, they had despotism government, which doesn't quite work with the human race. Boskara empire, right next to the human empire same size and strength, military dictatorship government never had a single world rebel, despite being constantly at war with at least 3 other empires, reputation diabolical. Seems military dictatorship works really well for the boskara.

Try this out, hope it works for you.

Cheers



bonesbro -> RE: Rebellions because you're at war with their species (2/26/2011 3:03:08 AM)

I'm playing ROTS. 1503, I think. I haven't gotten 1504 because the update process is annoying and the autoupdater doesn't work, but I didn't see anything in the patch notes that would suggest this has been changed.

My tax rate is set to manual. Taxes on the new colonies are zero. My empire's rep is Dubious, probably because I had to invade a bunch of colonies that broke away and became independent. That's like a -2 happiness modifier on large colonies.

Here are the happiness modifiers on a relatively young colony (50 culture, 108M population):
+15: Tax rate of zero
+10: Development
-29: At war with other Boskarans. (It's -29 this time. It was -31 last time.)

They'll rebel in a few moments.

It looks like it takes a culture of ~75 to get to +15 happiness, so I lose every Boskaran colony with less than that. It also ruins my economy because I have to drop taxes to zeroish on my homeworld and my other large worlds.

I'll upload a save to the FTP site.



bonesbro -> RE: Rebellions because you're at war with their species (2/26/2011 3:15:24 AM)

I uploaded bonesbro_feb24_HappinessRevolution.dwg to the FTP site. I saved this game about one second after they declared war on me.



Data -> RE: Rebellions because you're at war with their species (2/26/2011 6:44:49 AM)

the autoupdater doesn't work because all these are beta patches, they will soon release an official one and the autoupdater should be able to see and apply that one



Bingeling -> RE: Rebellions because you're at war with their species (2/26/2011 9:59:14 AM)

From what I gather...

The main issue is colonies with low culture. These have also rather low population, which hopefully are not able to raise very large rebel forces.

I tend to not pick up my invasion forces after I capture a colony to leave a garrison there. I also tend to try to avoid overkill much. I release the invaders from their fleets, give them the order to go as far to the rear as fuel allows, and put them on auto to find some troops away from the front lines.

I would figure 3-4 garrison troops would be enough to keep the population at bay for a smallish colony. What we really need is mentioned in the wish list already, which is a way to tell the game that "4 troops should be kept as garrison" so that rogue transports don't empty the place.

I had a large, very rich colony rebel on me a couple of times (see the Jewel in the West taken early in the Swarm AAR), but they were put down as there were 20+ garrison there at all times. Rebellions ran similar numbers in their 20s.



solops -> RE: Rebellions because you're at war with their species (3/2/2011 3:23:38 PM)

I agree with the original poster. The problem is severe. I have begun to scrap discovered colonisers and exterminate alien pops to stay racially "pure" as the lesser evil even with the reputation hit causes. Eventually the game becomes a pain either way, given the micromanagement that becomes necessary.



Kayoz -> RE: Rebellions because you're at war with their species (3/2/2011 8:16:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bonesbro

I'm playing ROTS. 1503, I think. I haven't gotten 1504 because the update process is annoying and the autoupdater doesn't work, but I didn't see anything in the patch notes that would suggest this has been changed.


There is no 1.503 - might want to check that.

They raised unhappiness for war with a species considerably - then dropped it back down in 1.504. However, it still seems to be a fixed value rather than escalating, which makes no sense to me since their stated intention was to make it more likely for large, developed worlds to rebel.

I'd suggest grabbing the latest beta patch (1.504) - it's less onerous where racial war penalties go.

On the point of being at war with your own race - yes, I agree that's a bug. Fighting with another empire of the SAME RACE AS YOU, shouldn't incur the penalty.



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