RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (Full Version)

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cookie monster -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/9/2011 4:04:05 PM)

I was also a bit annoyed at how much damage two...yes two German bombers could make



squatter -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/9/2011 4:10:03 PM)

I'm liking the way interdiction attacks now show up on the map.

But is anyone else finding that interdiction markers are in the wrong places? Ie I'm seeing loads of Axis interdiction attacks show up on my side of the lines (axis)



timmyab -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/9/2011 4:31:37 PM)

I'm getting hammered by interdiction at the moment.It's not so much the loss of men and material, it's not knowing if a unit is going to get to where it's needed.This could have disastrous consequences sooner or later.Having said that, I actually think it's realistic and therefore a good thing.I start to cringe now whenever a unit's movement becomes sticky, presumably from interdiction checks, before the inevitable attack.
I've noticed that some areas of the map are especially prone to attack so I've started to develop coping strategies.When I identify an interdiction hotspot I drive low value targets like unneeded HQ's through it to try and draw some fire, high value units go around if they can.



cookie monster -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/9/2011 4:38:04 PM)

I was getting hammered near Kiev.

Every time I was moving a unit. Blam. It slowed me down no end.

Must of added 5 extra minutes with all the halted moves and then reselection of destination



Reconvet -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/9/2011 5:30:36 PM)


Please consider to switch off sovjet interdictions in the first turn of all scenarios. Not because it might overly hamper axis moves but because the sovjet air force can get severely whacked before the player gets to apply his desired air doctrine.

In GC '41 SU airbases get hit heavy anyway, no big deal there, but I just started a '42 campaign and lost about 1500 sovjet planes (roughly 20% of red air force) during the axis move due to dozens of suicidal mini-interdictions of sovjet noob pilots against droves of axis interceptors.

I don't mind losing planes because of my own incompetent doctrine settings, but plane losses due to questionable initial scenario settings are just a stupid waste of resources. So please switch off initial sovjet interdiction in all scenarios.




amatteucci -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/9/2011 5:47:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Reconvet


Please consider to switch off sovjet interdictions in the first turn of all scenarios. Not because it might overly hamper axis moves but because the sovjet air force can get severely whacked before the player gets to apply his desired air doctrine.

Yet, although this behaviour is annoying (for the Soviet player), it is also realistic.
After the start of Barbarossa, the red Air Force managed to send large formations of SB and DB-3 bombers against Axis forces. But these missions accomplished little and, typically, only contributed additional Soviet losses to the overall slaughter, because, brave as they were, Soviet bombers, usually, were no match for German fighters.
So, it seems that the game recreates this situation well.



Reconvet -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/9/2011 6:27:31 PM)


My example: Start of '42 big campaign, not Barbarossa. Losing 1500 sovjet planes to some 50 axis because of dozens of suicidal interdiction raids composed of ridiculously low numbers (bombers and escorts) and performed by cannon-fodder noob crews during the axis first turn just leaves you baffled when you look at the combat results. Any decent sovjet player would have set up doctrine and front air force deployment in a way less self-destructive way. Anybody feeling that this looks okay for a '42 scenario has to be a lemming-lover...

So please spare SU players the frustration of watching these utterly stupid ill-composed sovjet kamikaze interdictions in turn 1 of all scenarios starting later than june '41.



amatteucci -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/9/2011 6:43:19 PM)

Sorry, I didn't notice you were complaining about the 1942 campaign. I agree that in that case a toning down of AI "aggressiveness" is appropriate.



JocMeister -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/15/2011 11:53:35 AM)

From what I can tell this is beeing looked at?

Interdiction is doing way, way to much damage atm!
Despite being protected by over 600 AA guns I lost 800 men and 55 artillary to bombing by 6 (yes six) PE-2 bombers... [8|]
And despite thoose 600 AA guns not a single bomber was shot down.









Apollo11 -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/15/2011 12:12:01 PM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

From what I can tell this is beeing looked at?

Interdiction is doing way, way to much damage atm!
Despite being protected by over 600 AA guns I lost 800 men and 55 artillary to bombing by 6 (yes six) PE-2 bombers... [8|]
And despite thoose 600 AA guns not a single bomber was shot down.


In our internal BETA there are already few changes regarding interdiction... [:)]


Leo "Apollo11"



JocMeister -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/15/2011 12:22:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

In our internal BETA there are already few changes regarding interdiction... [:)]


Leo "Apollo11"


Glad to hear it! [:)]



marty_01 -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/15/2011 2:03:33 PM)

Yes -- good to hear that interdiction effects are being looked at for the next Beta. Interdiction is a nice touch for the game system, but the current effects are out of proportion relative to Operational studies conducted on determining the effectiveness of tactical air interdiction. Moreover, there are a large numbers of studies conducted by the Allies in N.Africa, Italy and France on results of tactical air interdiction attacks on ground units. In addition, the USAF conducted fairly extensive studies on air interdiction effects on ground units during the Korean War. Hopefully these are being studied in order to fine tune current game engine effects. The effects I am seeing during my two PBEM GC game (playing Axis in one and Reds in the 2nd) are currently rather devastating -- and its only 1941. I think if the current effects remain in place, the German army will be wrecked by Soviet air interdiction effects during 43 - 45 portion of the game. I think this to be Ahistorical.

Certainly we can all point to very specific cases of effective tactical air interdiction attacks which occurred when all the planets happened to be properly aligned in time and space. And in a probability based game engine we should see devastating tactical air interdiction attacks -- occasionally. But I seem to be seeing devastating TAC air interdiction attacks by limited numbers of participating aircraft as the norm -- at least in the games I am playing.

My two cents -- If I had my druthers I'd focus tactical air interdiction effects more upon:
A) Turn based reductions in unit morale if hit by “effective" tactical air interdiction attacks.
B) Destruction of unit supply and loss of supply trucks (destruction of a units fuel and supplies – etc). Let the hits on unit supplies trickle down to actual unit effects on movement rates and combat power (or I suppose CV).
C) Given historical results of TAC air interdiction some limited destruction of men and material.




Michael T -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/15/2011 11:09:45 PM)

Interdiction has gone from being a somewhat occasionally annoying experince not worthy of too much concern to forefront of all conscious thought now. I pity my Russian opponent, because if I am getting whacked as German he must be getting wholloped big time. I hope this gets fixed soon. I now move my critical units (Panzers etc) incrementally forward and leap frog with an airbase stacked with fighters to avoid the massive losses in MP and troops. Its a bit nuts. Somewhere between the two extremes would be nice [&:]



runyan99 -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/19/2011 10:40:51 PM)

I am about 8 turns into a campaign game with 1.03, and I have never seen an interdiction attack against a unit using rail movement. Does it ever happen?



randallw -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/19/2011 11:45:43 PM)

It should be possible; it may not happen much because the detection level is low for railed units.



tancred41 -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/20/2011 1:16:48 AM)

The interdiction is a welcome addition. Of course, it will require some fine-tuning; the more users chime in with their specific experiences of it, the better and the faster the developers can tweak it.



runyan99 -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/20/2011 1:26:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

It should be possible; it may not happen much because the detection level is low for railed units.


I think you are right. Probably needs an adjustment, because historically trains were not hard to spot, and were frequent air targets. Seems the trains in game have stealth tech.

By the way, I may have missed it in the manual, but what about air attacks against railyards to reduce rail capacity? Not possible?



randallw -> RE: Have you seen Interdictions in your games when using WitE v1.03 BETA6? (3/20/2011 3:38:03 AM)

I believe rail capacity is inside cities, and bombable....or i'm wrong.

The way the game works you can spot enemy units by recon during your turn, but not during the other side's turn.  It should apply whether units are moved by rail or just marching.



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