Victory!

Victory! (Full Version)

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LiquidSky -> Victory! (2/28/2011 7:11:17 AM)
Halder in his diary, July 3rd, 1941: "It is hardly too much to say, that the Feldzug against Russia has been won in fourteen days .... In a matter of weeks, it would all be over" Hitler Directive July 14th, 1941: Advises that the strength of the Army could be "considerably reduced in the near future" and that armament production be concentrated on naval ships and Luftwaffe planes for the conduct of the war against England. American General Staff, July Confidently inform American editors and Washington correspondents that the collapse of the Soviet Union was only a matter of a few weeks. Hitler end of September: Instructs High Command to prepare to disband 40 infantry divisions so that this additional manpower could bue utilized by industry Otto Dietrich (German press secretary), October 8th: "For all military purposes, Soviet Russia is done with. The British dream of a two front war is dead" Which is wildly believed by the Americans and English to be true. Oct. 20th. German armoured spearheads within 40 miles (4 hexes) of Moscow. Soviet ministries and foreign embassies evacuating to Kuibyshev. Halder writes that Moscow will fall before the severe Russian winter sets in.

SgtKachalin -> RE: Victory! (2/28/2011 7:19:59 AM)
Yes, reading history as it happened gives excellent insights! (One of the most important - no one can see the future. [:D]) Headlines and leads from the NY Times of 16-October-1941: RUSSIANS RETREAT; People of Moscow, Now in ‘Immense Danger,’ Urged to Fight POSITION ‘DETERIORATING’ Nazis Break Through in West — Offensive From South Also Is Progressing MOSCOW RALLIES FOR A FINAL STAND BERNE, Switzerland, Thursday, Oct. 16 — The Russian radio reported early today the withdrawal of Soviet forces from the city of Kalinin, about 100 miles northwest of Moscow, and there were indications that the outermost defenses of the capital were in danger of collapse. Germans Break Through MOSCOW, Thursday, Oct. 16 — A powerful German force of tanks and motorized infantry has broken through the defenses west of Moscow, forcing the Russian central armies into retreat, it was acknowledged officially early today, with the hour of supreme crisis for the capital at hand. THE SIEGE BEGINS Thursday, Oct. 16. As the Germans close in on the outer defenses of Moscow, it looks as if one of the great sieges of history is beginning. Although the Russians admit that their position on the Western Front has deteriorated, and their forces have had to fall back, reports from the imperiled city give a picture of a population girding itself with stoic calm for a defense to the death.

Redmarkus5 -> RE: Victory! (2/28/2011 2:13:31 PM)
Very good reminder. I wonder how the GC can be modified so that the Axis player feels the same sense of confidence in Oct '41 and doesn't face a sea of Soviet divisions ten rows deep, but still can't quite make it Moscow over the next 2 months...?

dazoline II -> RE: Victory! (2/28/2011 2:48:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: redmarkus4 Very good reminder. I wonder how the GC can be modified so that the Axis player feels the same sense of confidence in Oct '41 and doesn't face a sea of Soviet divisions ten rows deep, but still can't quite make it Moscow over the next 2 months...? Mud and a winter that smashes German CV.... O wait. :)

Jajusha -> RE: Victory! (2/28/2011 3:13:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: redmarkus4 Very good reminder. I wonder how the GC can be modified so that the Axis player feels the same sense of confidence in Oct '41 and doesn't face a sea of Soviet divisions ten rows deep, but still can't quite make it Moscow over the next 2 months...? Central command was one thing, the actuall army leaders had a very very diferent view. Guderian was considering the taking of moscow "less then certain" already in early november.

Skanvak -> RE: Victory! (2/28/2011 4:51:18 PM)
May be there should be an option to randomize the ability of the soviet player to mobilize and a give some chance for politcal collapse (at least partial). This would give the German player a hope that he could win the war as historically planned. This way he could try to rush for the elusive 10% chance that the Russian will collapse if Moscow is taken.

LiquidSky -> RE: Victory! (3/1/2011 8:12:03 AM)
November 13th, Guderian writes that the temperature had fallen to 8 degrees below zero, Fahrenheit and... "Ice was causing a lot of trouble since the calks for the tank tracks had not yet arrived. The cold made the telescopic sights useless. In order to start the engines of the tanks fires had to be lit beneath them. Fuel was freezing on occasions and the oil became viscous...Each regiment [of the 112th Infantry Division] had already lost some 500 men from frostbite. As a result of the cold the machine guns were no longer able to fire and our 37mm antitank guns had proved ineffective against the T-34 tank" And yet they still fought towards Moscow for a few more weeks.

NinetyNine -> RE: Victory! (3/1/2011 1:55:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: redmarkus4 Very good reminder. I wonder how the GC can be modified so that the Axis player feels the same sense of confidence in Oct '41 and doesn't face a sea of Soviet divisions ten rows deep, but still can't quite make it Moscow over the next 2 months...? It probably can't, due to our foreknowledge of the brutality of the upcoming winter. If the Germans had know this, their '41 diaries would have been more melancholy, with little sad faces doodled in the margins.

Commanderski -> RE: Victory! (3/2/2011 12:28:04 AM)
It appears that Halder changed his opinion in a relatively short period of time. On August 11 '41 he wrote " The whole situation makes it increasingly plain that we have underestimated the Russian colossus" The commanders in the field knew they were in for a very difficut time fairly early.

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