Any would-be Field Marshalls... I Need Advice (Full Version)

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Uhtred -> Any would-be Field Marshalls... I Need Advice (3/1/2011 8:21:25 PM)

I'm new to the game and am only just starting to get my feet wet. I played through the "Road to Smolensk" scenario once already and managed a major defeat at the hands of the Russians. I've started again and tried to correct some of my earlier mistakes, but I now face a bit of a dilemma. My offensive has run out of steam after just two turns. See attached screen shot.

It's the end of turn 2, and so far things have gone very well. I used the 2nd and 3rd panzer Groups in a pincer to complete a massive encirclement of nearly all the troops on the frontier, closing it about 40 miles west of Minsk. On turn 2, the 4th and 9th Armies pushed east and annihilated everything in the pocket (the Russians have already lost more than 360,000 men and more than 1,600 aircraft). In oder to set up another encirclement as quickly as possible, the 2nd Panzer Group took Minsk and headed further East to try and cross the Dnepr at Mogilev (in order to approach Smolensk from the south). I immediately shifted the 3rd Panzer Group North to establish a river crossing of the Daugava river within the baltic rail zone (hopefully allowing them to quickly establish supply lines). The 3rd Panzer Group can then head south east to take Vitebsk and then Smolensk. Ideally I can create another pocket using my two Panzer Groups.

In the meantime, the plan is for the 9th Army to head directly for the Orsha land bridge while the 4th Army will skirt the northern edge of the pripyat marshes (I leave what's in the marshes to rot there) and the 4th will hopefully be able to take Gomel. The 2nd Army, which is still frozen, will act as a reserve for the time being.

So now for my question. It looks like I'm already about to outrun my supply lines. If I cross the Daugava with the 3rd Panzer Group, and push south east, they will be out of supply pretty much right away. Waiting for the FBD to complete rail repairs will solve that, but it means waiting for at least 3 turns. On the other hand, it's going to take that long just to get the slow moving infantry from the 4th and 9th Armies back up to the front lines. Finally, even if the 2nd Panzer Group does take Mogilev and crosses the Dnepr, they'll also have the same supply problems from being on the wrong side of a big river. It would appear that I'm going to have to pause and consolidate my front lines and let the rail heads get closer to the front. However, the instant I do that, the Russians will establish a thick defensive line and the initiative is lost.

So to make a long story short...How do you win this scenario? Thank you for any tips.

[image]local://upfiles/37097/7B97A10304DD40DDAAB3A3BA6A5D30AC.jpg[/image]



karonagames -> RE: Any would-be Field Marshalls... I Need Advice (3/1/2011 8:29:55 PM)

Are you air dropping fuel to your forward units? Do you understand how HQ buildup works? You can overcome supply issues by using these features.

Also on turn one you need to make sure you make maximum use of all the surprise rules. One technique is to use units furthest from the front first to push back and open gaps in the line, and leaving the Panzers until last so they fully exploit the gaps.



Pipewrench -> RE: Any would-be Field Marshalls... I Need Advice (3/1/2011 9:35:09 PM)

+1

use your farthest infantry to open a breach 3 wide and then send thru any remaining infantry reserves, starting with the the farthest units to hold the flanks of the breach and then send your motorized and armor to exploit in the rear to cut supply points and pin units. Cutting supply and keeping it cut is important to destroying forces. 

save your game

what will give you a good idea on the effects you want to achive is to take 1 motorized
and 1 infantry division and advance them as far as they can and then let the AI surround them or cut the supply line.  now look at their movement and combat value.

have fun


                                                                                           



Helpless -> RE: Any would-be Field Marshalls... I Need Advice (3/1/2011 9:43:08 PM)

Make sure you are using latest 1.03 Beta 6. There was a supply production/calculation bug affecting small scenarios.



Duck Doc -> RE: Any would-be Field Marshalls... I Need Advice (3/2/2011 1:47:11 AM)

Well, I am the reigning expert in this scenario because I have played it at least a gazillion times. It took me that many to finally prevail but I learned a lot along the way. For one thing I don't let 3rd panzer group cross the Dvina until close to Vitebsk. I also think 2nd panzer group may have taken too low a route to get to Minsk but this is a minor observation. I do notice that you have not developed your infantry as rapidly as I learned to do. It really is a race east for all.

The Soviet units west of Minsk can get herded into oblivion; they aren't even speed brakes. I have them surrounded on the second turn & 2nd panzer group is let loose on the 3rd. I now use 4th army to do most of the clearing & let 9th army go east while 18th & 16th armies go north & east to screen the Daugava & vacuum any remaining soviet units. You need 9th army & the panzer infantry in the worst way east as quick as they can come. It took me a while to learn the need to coordinate infantry with panzers. It took me a while to learn to form & clear the Minsk pocket efficiently & let the panzers loose.

Although 3rd panzer group is heading for Vilikie Luki I use the Orsha landbridge to flank the Dnepr crossings with elements of both but I don't get stuck in a slogging match with the panzers there. I also don't want to delay forcing a crossing at Mogilev & below & then get stuck while the Soviets pack units there. Besides river crossing around Mogilev is a lot easier when the defending units have been flanked east of Orsha. 4th army is coming up to take Gomel.

pipewrench & BigAnorak have good tips. I have used headquarters buildup but don't use it routinely. I don't usually drop supplies to panzers because it is a drop in the bucket. I might consider it but only as an emergnecy. I run my panzers into the ground in the short scenarios & even then they have enough fuel to make me a victory in the end. I am now on the Moscow scenario & what I learned in Smolensk is helping. I am very careful now about supply & let infantry do the heavy lifting when they can. I am trying to rest my panzers some now to build up their fuel supplies. It is easy to do to let one panzer corps do work on one turn & let the other(s) rest. I can do this if the infantry is up.

It took me about 2 weeks to get comfortable winning in Smolensk. Now I am on the bottom steep part of the Moscow learning curve. Victory is so close. I turned off the fog of war at the end of my last try & had a cow. But I recall feeling just as frustrated early in Smolensk. Hang in there.

Let me tell you, if you divide the $80 it cost to buy the game by a gazillion hours playing it must be the cheapest game around.

Now that I am stuck in Moscow I am going to have to give in & really read the manual. [:D] I have been under a lot of stress lately & GG's WitE is my therapy.

Hope this helps.

Obtw, have you done the Operational Boot Camp tutorial in the War Room? It is invaluable.




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