Pilot Management -- Again (Full Version)

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CaptDave -> Pilot Management -- Again (3/3/2011 7:14:46 PM)

Some questions that have been answered before, but we all know the state of the Search function (out of service). When I get the answers, I'll work on putting something together for the Wiki so these don't keep coming up.

1. Which training missions affect which particular pilot skills? Please include altitude differences, if applicable.

2. IIRC, we've pretty much decided that having an experienced pilot in a training unit confers no direct advantage. However, the experienced pilot will fly fewer training missions, thus contributing to additional training for the x% at the bottom of the ladder. Is this a fair assessment?

3. I've noticed that pilots in different units have different options in terms of going into group reserve, going into TRACOM reserve, becoming inactive within the unit, and so on. Can anyone elaborate on the different options and when they're available?

As I say, I know these have all been asked (and answered) before, but right now Search returns absolutely nothing on even the simplest search terms. Thanks for your help!



aphrochine -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/3/2011 7:34:58 PM)

2. This is not my experience at all.  I've found having experienced flying leaders, or experienced pilots in training squadrons does help the speed of training.  Having played the opening year of both sides, the IJN trains pilots much faster than the allied units by pulling experienced KB pilots and placing them into the training squadrons.  I do not have any hard testing or quantifiable evidence, but I point to China as my proof.  Chinese units take months and months to train to any reasonable level, imo because they have no experienced pilots to help up the squadron's average skill/exp.  My first go at allies, I set all Chinese squadrons to full training.  American and Brit training groups had graduated 2 classes before china had combat'ish capable pilots.

3. TRACOM is basically a reserve for 80+ experience pilots.  They are suppose to contribute to training speed of pilots going their their 1 year of flight school, but the effects are negligible imo, so I usually place 80+ into training squadrons as inactive to increase the average exp/skill to hastened training.  TRACOM does not travel with any squadron.  General Reserve is just that, a big pool that contains all named or 'in game pilots' that were at one point born into a squadron and then detached from that squadron.  This is also where pilots from sunk ships or over run squadrons end up if they survive.  Possible former POW's end up here as well I'm guessing.  Group Reserve are inactive pilots (do not fly) but they travel with the squadron they are assigned to.  They can be activated immediately for duty manually if their delay is 1, else you have to wait for them to "arrive".



jmalter -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/3/2011 9:11:52 PM)

some groups are 'scheduled for withdrawal', their pilots can be 'made inactive' (i.e. 'Group Reserve') but can't be 'sent to General Reserve'. But once they're 'made inactive', they can be transferred to another group by means of the 'Request Veteran' button. Don't lose those valuable trained pilots to withdrawal!



Nomad -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/3/2011 9:20:44 PM)

Number 2 was tested and it did not help to have any experienced pilots in the group.



CV 2 -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/3/2011 10:31:35 PM)

Not to mention that "speeding up" the arrival only "speeds up" pilots already in the pipeline and doesnt put any more pilots into that pipeline. I have found that as the Japanese you are far better off not speeding up these reinforcements but rather depleting your pilot reserve. You do NOT run out of pilots, you just get them at a very low experience rate, which after sitting in a squadron in Japan for 4 months or so gives them BETTER experience than if they had been sitting in the pilot training track for the year. Also, I have seen significant "pilot acceleration" without any pilots in TRADOC at all.

IMHO, pilot training (ie TRADOC) doesnt do anything at all.



aphrochine -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/3/2011 10:56:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Number 2 was tested and it did not help to have any experienced pilots in the group.



So this...

quote:

Groups can fly normal Training missions (with a training percent) which occur in the
AM and PM air phases. These gain both skill and experience points.
Groups will also gain skill and experience (after passing a training check against the
training percent of the group) at the end of each day:
1. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less
than the overall group experience level
2. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less
than the leader’s skill
3. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group with some Instructors (adds higher
increments to accumulators)
4. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group without Instructors (higher success
and slightly higher increments than a normal group)
5. if pilot is in a group with some training percent (number of veteran pilots
(experience of 80+) increases chance of successful training)


...is rubbish??



CV 2 -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/3/2011 11:00:19 PM)

TRADOC is when you click on a pilot and transfer him to "training command". What you have above is training within an air unit, which is the ONLY way I train pilots.



Nomad -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/3/2011 11:44:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aphrochine


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Number 2 was tested and it did not help to have any experienced pilots in the group.



So this...

quote:

Groups can fly normal Training missions (with a training percent) which occur in the
AM and PM air phases. These gain both skill and experience points.
Groups will also gain skill and experience (after passing a training check against the
training percent of the group) at the end of each day:
1. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less
than the overall group experience level
2. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less
than the leader’s skill
3. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group with some Instructors (adds higher
increments to accumulators)
4. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group without Instructors (higher success
and slightly higher increments than a normal group)
5. if pilot is in a group with some training percent (number of veteran pilots
(experience of 80+) increases chance of successful training)


...is rubbish??


All I can say is that someone tested whether having some high experience pilots helped the group train and it did not. The bottom line is if you think it helps, then by all means put experienced pilots with your newbies. I don't, I use my experienced pilots in the front lines killing the enemy. I have had no problem training pilots without using any experienced pilots at all. I have hundreds of well trained ( 50+ experience, 70+ skill )

Also note that there are no dedicated training groups anymore, they have been removed. And how many 80+ experience pilots do you want to use for training? I like to use what I get for killing the enemy.




Shark7 -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/3/2011 11:52:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: aphrochine


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Number 2 was tested and it did not help to have any experienced pilots in the group.



So this...

quote:

Groups can fly normal Training missions (with a training percent) which occur in the
AM and PM air phases. These gain both skill and experience points.
Groups will also gain skill and experience (after passing a training check against the
training percent of the group) at the end of each day:
1. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less
than the overall group experience level
2. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less
than the leader’s skill
3. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group with some Instructors (adds higher
increments to accumulators)
4. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group without Instructors (higher success
and slightly higher increments than a normal group)
5. if pilot is in a group with some training percent (number of veteran pilots
(experience of 80+) increases chance of successful training)


...is rubbish??


All I can say is that someone tested whether having some high experience pilots helped the group train and it did not. The bottom line is if you think it helps, then by all means put experienced pilots with your newbies. I don't, I use my experienced pilots in the front lines killing the enemy. I have had no problem training pilots without using any experienced pilots at all. I have hundreds of well trained ( 50+ experience, 70+ skill )

Also note that there are no dedicated training groups anymore, they have been removed. And how many 80+ experience pilots do you want to use for training? I like to use what I get for killing the enemy.




I do put them into training squadrons or Tracom once they hit a certain EXP and number of kills...to save them for when I have late war planes that can at least hold their own.

Mid war, I don't use my best pilots in planes that I know are not going to survive contact with the enemy. I sometimes think as Japan you are better not to try and dog-fight in '43-44 until you get the Ki-84 Hayate and N1K1 Shiden.



CaptDave -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/4/2011 12:32:43 AM)

Just in case anyone is unclear, when I say "training unit" I mean a unit you, the player, are using strictly for training (such as the US-based units that are going to withdraw before the war is even 2 months old).  I realize the game itself doesn't recognize dedicated training units.

Thanks for your replies so far.  Looks like the consensus for #2 is (a) having high-experience pilots helps, and (b) having high-experience pilots has no effect.  [:D]



Nomad -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/4/2011 1:26:37 AM)

I will leave you with this LINK of the testing done by seethingErmine.



Shark7 -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/4/2011 1:38:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

Just in case anyone is unclear, when I say "training unit" I mean a unit you, the player, are using strictly for training (such as the US-based units that are going to withdraw before the war is even 2 months old).  I realize the game itself doesn't recognize dedicated training units.

Thanks for your replies so far.  Looks like the consensus for #2 is (a) having high-experience pilots helps, and (b) having high-experience pilots has no effect.  [:D]



To clarify, by a 'trainer unit' I'm referring to a squadron that I send back to the Home Islands, set on training to improve skills as much as possible, and wait for a decent aircraft to assign to the unit. Since these are usually 85+ XP double aces, they get the best planes in 44.



aphrochine -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/4/2011 3:28:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I will leave you with this LINK of the testing done by seethingErmine.



Interesting test.


Djordje makes a very interesting point...

quote:

In my opinion what your test needs is additional 30 or 60 days game time. When skills and experience are low they seem to progress at about the same pace, but once they go higher (exp over 50 skill over 60) differences begins to emerge. It seems that when trainee experience and skill approach leader's it slows down, which ensures that better leaders can train pilots to higher values. At least that's what I see in my game.


It's too bad this was not tested. Training does slow to a crawl once skills reach mid-60s and skill the 50 mark. It would be interesting to see if the veteran pilots kicked in here.

Given if there is a literal meaning to the order of these training checks...


quote:

Groups can fly normal Training missions (with a training percent) which occur in the
AM and PM air phases. These gain both skill and experience points.
Groups will also gain skill and experience (after passing a training check against the
training percent of the group) at the end of each day:
1. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less
than the overall group experience level
2. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less
than the leader’s skill
3. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group with some Instructors (adds higher
increments to accumulators)
4. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group without Instructors (higher success
and slightly higher increments than a normal group)
5. if pilot is in a group with some training percent (number of veteran pilots
(experience of 80+) increases chance of successful training)


The veteran pilots check (#5) might not be as noticeable as checks #1 and #2 would pass frequently until XP is over 50. Once at that threshold, the veteran status could make a noticeable impact. Since the original test stopped training at XP 43-45 it's really hard to say.

In my current game, I'm at a point where my pilot pool is sufficient to cover my pilot needs so my training groups are training until the pilot's XP is nearing 60. Again, I don't have data, but my impression has been it helps.



treespider -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/4/2011 8:14:01 AM)

Would be curious to see if Leader - Admin skill has any impact as well...



n01487477 -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/4/2011 8:22:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Would be curious to see if Leader - Admin skill has any impact as well...

Actually I tested with an enhanced Tracker version taking account of the groups experience levels in the various categories; testing alt, range, leaders,exp etc etc ...

And nothing made much of a difference ... that is to say that within the statistical +/- 2% nothing was gained ...It's a pity really.



bruin -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/6/2011 7:45:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

some groups are 'scheduled for withdrawal', their pilots can be 'made inactive' (i.e. 'Group Reserve') but can't be 'sent to General Reserve'. But once they're 'made inactive', they can be transferred to another group by means of the 'Request Veteran' button. Don't lose those valuable trained pilots to withdrawal!


Not entirely correct.

If you have a group that has a standard 25 planes, you can transfer any number of pilots above 25 to group reserve. So what you can do, overfill the squadron with 33 pilots. Train them. As soon as they must be withdrawn (if you are going to lose them, you don't always) just take out the excess pilots 8 (33 overfill - 25 minimum). You can then refill the squad with excess green pilots and take out the experienced pilots and keep doing this until you've swapped out all the experienced pilots for green pilots.



CaptDave -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/7/2011 9:35:48 PM)

Thanks again for everyone's continuing replies (and especially to Nomad for the link to one of the original posts that Search refused to tell me about).

Any comments on the first question, regarding training missions and skills affected?



crsutton -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/7/2011 9:43:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aphrochine


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Number 2 was tested and it did not help to have any experienced pilots in the group.



So this...

quote:

Groups can fly normal Training missions (with a training percent) which occur in the
AM and PM air phases. These gain both skill and experience points.
Groups will also gain skill and experience (after passing a training check against the
training percent of the group) at the end of each day:
1. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less
than the overall group experience level
2. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less
than the leader’s skill
3. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group with some Instructors (adds higher
increments to accumulators)
4. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group without Instructors (higher success
and slightly higher increments than a normal group)
5. if pilot is in a group with some training percent (number of veteran pilots
(experience of 80+) increases chance of successful training)


...is rubbish??


You have to remember that the manual was written for AE version 1.0 and there have been many changes in the frequent patches but the manual never changes. Don't put too much stock in what you read in the manual. We had "dedicated" training sqadrons in one of the earliest patches. They did not work out too well and were removed.



terje439 -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/8/2011 12:55:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

some groups are 'scheduled for withdrawal', their pilots can be 'made inactive' (i.e. 'Group Reserve') but can't be 'sent to General Reserve'. But once they're 'made inactive', they can be transferred to another group by means of the 'Request Veteran' button. Don't lose those valuable trained pilots to withdrawal!


Not what I have seen, you do however need to draw in more pilots to the group first, so that the total number in the group is bigger than the number of pilots needed to run the group at 100%. (gee this did not come out too well..)

Example:
A group with 25 planes and 25 pilots you want to keep.
1. Draw as many recruits into the group as possible
2. Make the best pilots in the group inactive untill you have 25 pilots still active in the group
3. Send the inactive pilots to General reserve
4. Repeat (1-3) untill all the 25 pilots have been removed from the group.

Terje



jcjordan -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/8/2011 2:21:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

Some questions that have been answered before, but we all know the state of the Search function (out of service). When I get the answers, I'll work on putting something together for the Wiki so these don't keep coming up.

1. Which training missions affect which particular pilot skills? Please include altitude differences, if applicable.



As to this part

Escort or Sweep at an alt of greater than 5000ft - improves air/defense skill
Escort or sweep at 100ft - improves strafe/defense skill
Naval attack w/ bomb & alt greater than 5000ft improves naval attack skill, w/ alt at 5000ft or lower improves low naval
Ground, airfield, port attack & alt greater than 5000ft improves ground attack skill, w/ alt at 5000ft or lower improves low ground attack skill
Naval attack w/ torpedo like naval attack w/ bomb except torpedo skill is improved but alt doesn't seem to matter (5000ft or lower seems to work best for gains)
Naval Search, ASW, Recon are improved by training in this area regardless of alt
All of the above attacks also can improve the defence skill
Also w/ a gain in skill will possibly come a gain in EXP
The alt setting from my experience seems to get the most bang for the buck but may not be set in stone but 5000ft seems to be a trigger between high & low alt skills



CV 2 -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (3/8/2011 3:45:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


You have to remember that the manual was written for AE version 1.0 and there have been many changes in the frequent patches but the manual never changes. Don't put too much stock in what you read in the manual. We had "dedicated" training sqadrons in one of the earliest patches. They did not work out too well and were removed.


Why the .pdfs in the manual directory arent updated is beyond me however. No reason for that not to be.



Sieppo -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (6/19/2013 2:46:46 PM)

I still have two things I quite haven't understood, maybe someone could kindly explain:

GROUP RESERVE: I did some searching around and nobody seems to use but it could maybe be used for resting pilots? So as to set an pilot to group reserve he's inactive in the squadron and could be back in 1 day? What is it in general?

PILOTS IN TRANSIT: I noticed a problem when filling air groups with pilots. Let's assume I have on turn 1 set some experienced pilots to go to a certain group. They will take some time in transit. Then the next turn I check the group again and have forgotten that I have already set some pilots to arrive into the group but they are in transit and add some pilots into the group AGAIN. Do the pilots in transit show somewhere in the groups screens?

EDIT: damn, replied in the "wrong" thread but I guess it could be seen as the correct one also :)

EDIT2: the pilot addendum seems to give the explanation of the group reserve as "inactive/non-flying". Is it also quicker to change groups via the group reserve than the general reserve?

"If the pilot is active (delay is 0), then left-click will allow pilot to be transferred to
the Group Reserve (make inactive/non-flying). Right-click will allow pilot to be
rotated out of the group for 180 days."



Amoral -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (6/19/2013 3:55:34 PM)

If you 'request a pilot' from reserve it will only draw on general reserve. If you request a veteran you can choose from either general reserve or from all group reserves. Pilots in group (as opposed to general) reserve have about twice the delay getting to their new squadron, but no delay if you reactivate them to their original squadron.

I personally never use group reserve.



LoBaron -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (6/19/2013 9:04:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Amoral

If you 'request a pilot' from reserve it will only draw on general reserve. If you request a veteran you can choose from either general reserve or from all group reserves. Pilots in group (as opposed to general) reserve have about twice the delay getting to their new squadron, but no delay if you reactivate them to their original squadron.

I personally never use group reserve.


Group reserve can be immensely useful if used to directly transfer pilots from your dedicated training squads to operational squads.

Set the pilots chosen for transfer to group reserve, go to the squad you want to add the pilots to, go to group reserve on pilot selection and select the pilots made available from the training squad. Saves a lot of tedious search for multi-skill pilots in general reserve.



Sieppo -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (6/19/2013 10:11:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Amoral

If you 'request a pilot' from reserve it will only draw on general reserve. If you request a veteran you can choose from either general reserve or from all group reserves. Pilots in group (as opposed to general) reserve have about twice the delay getting to their new squadron, but no delay if you reactivate them to their original squadron.

I personally never use group reserve.


Group reserve can be immensely useful if used to directly transfer pilots from your dedicated training squads to operational squads.

Set the pilots chosen for transfer to group reserve, go to the squad you want to add the pilots to, go to group reserve on pilot selection and select the pilots made available from the training squad. Saves a lot of tedious search for multi-skill pilots in general reserve.


So it's like a fast channel for transferring pilots between squads? Saves the "travel time" to and from general reserve? In addition to a place where to rest? I'm having a hard time understanding the concept. A reserve is a reserve but how is it different from the general reserve as a concept? Say for example the General reserve is situated in Japan but the group reserve safe but near the fronts?



Lokasenna -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (6/20/2013 12:36:40 AM)

Using the "release pilot" buttons at the bottom is what spares the variable 1-7 day transfer time that you get by clicking on individual pilotz. Get good at usjng these and you can transfer a pilot from a training squadron in Tsitsihar to a front line unit at Rabaul instantly.



sandlance -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (6/20/2013 1:01:21 AM)

Ive been playing "DOWNFALL", And group reserve is esential in keeping the B-29 Group available for extended periods. On average a pilot with Fatigue or 15-20 if put into Group reserve will recover 50% of the fatigue each day. Instead of resting the whole you can rest just individual pilots.



NigelKentarus -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (5/8/2015 9:20:42 AM)

Something I couldn't find is, when setting a LB squadron to training, is there any advantage/disadvantage to selecting Airfield or Port attack? I understand selecting Naval or Ground, they improve skills. Thanks.



geofflambert -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (5/8/2015 12:21:29 PM)

I think it does help to have well trained pilots in a training sqd. but I think it's a bad idea to do that on purpose. Try to keep all the trainees in close proximity skill level wise. Some train faster than others. If they get too far ahead they just sit around drinking beer and playing poker. Their rates of STDs rises dramatically. All too often they end up in the hoosegow and what good are they doing then?

If they're fighter crews, put them in the reserve then reassign them to an "accelerated" training squadron to finish up. If they're TB crews you can do the same or more likely move them to a squadron training on a different skill. They need to be proficient in naval attack w/ torps, naval attack w/ bombs, naval search, ASW and reccon wouldn't hurt. If you're allied you might want to improve their ground attack skills. I was just talking TB crews, every AC type needs its own sort of crews and you need to keep them segregated somehow. If someone would come up with an app that would keep track of them by parameters the player defines I think that person would get a lot of love. witpqs are you listening?

As for transport crews I use those squadrons to train up in general skill level as much as possible. If a squadron is active but just moving cargo from one airfield to another, recruits will get it done just fine and their experience levels will rise while doing it. All they need to know is how to fly and not get lost. I keep a cadre of highly trained transport crews in reserve for airborne operations. If I'm the Japanese I use most of those transports to train in general skill level. Once those crews reach 50 in experience level, I start making fighter pilots out of them. By the time they reach 70 in air combat skill they will be quite good at def and anything else you might want them to do.



geofflambert -> RE: Pilot Management -- Again (5/13/2015 8:19:43 PM)

Has anyone else noticed how many hits there are on this thread? Is that a record for a one pager?



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