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hgilmer3 -> Digital books.... (3/6/2011 5:52:06 PM)

Are they going to be less and less utilized as the pricing gets more and more out of line with how much the physical books cost?

I looked at a book this morning that was just put into paperback. Digital cost - $19.99. Paperback cost $6.45. Publisher - Random House.

I'll buy all my damned books used if I have to. I'd rather give my money to some guy selling his used book online than giving that much for a digital book.

Does anyone know how much it costs to put a book into a readable digital version?



Phatguy -> RE: Digital books.... (3/6/2011 6:40:09 PM)

Less than it costs to publish a real honest to goodness  paper one. The profit from the paper one might hit 30 or so percent for all phases. The profit from the digital one? Ludicrously high....They can charge a lot because it is "new" and every tom, dick and jane want one just to show up their friends...

I think eventually they will take over for paper books and magazines due to the enormous profits they can generate. Once the readers drop into the 20-30 dollar range we will see that...

But I hope I am wrong



Hertston -> RE: Digital books.... (3/6/2011 7:10:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hgilmer3

Are they going to be less and less utilized as the pricing gets more and more out of line with how much the physical books cost?

I looked at a book this morning that was just put into paperback. Digital cost - $19.99. Paperback cost $6.45. Publisher - Random House.

I'll buy all my damned books used if I have to. I'd rather give my money to some guy selling his used book online than giving that much for a digital book.

Does anyone know how much it costs to put a book into a readable digital version?


From the point of view of the publishers, next to nothing as they are in an easy to convert format before printing.

At the moment it's just the wonderful free market at work (although, in my experience, the differential is rarely that wide). Publishers think the folks who are currently likely to buy Kindles, Sony Readers, iPads etc will be happy to fork out that much for books to read on them. When every school kid has one, hopefully the prices will equate.

It's even worse for us Euros as while printed books are exempt from VAT (currently 20% in the UK) digital ones are not, something publishers can do nothing about. It's just the law not keeping pace with technology, although nobody is likely to cut that tax at the moment. Paperbacks, particularly novels, tend to be more expensive over here too.



hgilmer3 -> RE: Digital books.... (3/6/2011 7:17:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: hgilmer3

Are they going to be less and less utilized as the pricing gets more and more out of line with how much the physical books cost?

I looked at a book this morning that was just put into paperback. Digital cost - $19.99. Paperback cost $6.45. Publisher - Random House.

I'll buy all my damned books used if I have to. I'd rather give my money to some guy selling his used book online than giving that much for a digital book.

Does anyone know how much it costs to put a book into a readable digital version?


From the point of view of the publishers, next to nothing as they are in an easy to convert format before printing.

At the moment it's just the wonderful free market at work (although, in my experience, the differential is rarely that wide). Publishers think the folks who are currently likely to buy Kindles, Sony Readers, iPads etc will be happy to fork out that much for books to read on them. When every school kid has one, hopefully the prices will equate.

It's even worse for us Euros as while printed books are exempt from VAT (currently 20% in the UK) digital ones are not, something publishers can do nothing about. It's just the law not keeping pace with technology, although nobody is likely to cut that tax at the moment. Paperbacks, particularly novels, tend to be more expensive over here too.



I'm very much learning more and more on the issue as the day goes on. It has been noted by several people online (Cnet and Random House's forums) about the strange and drastic pricing structure of some digital books. I'm sorry that you have to deal with the VAT and I hope it doesn't come here (although some suggest it to save us from our budget woes).

I'm going to "vote" with my wallet and if there is a publisher that seems to be gouging (although I know I'm using that term loosely with a non-essential product), I will buy the used book and the publisher can go pound sand.



RedArgo -> RE: Digital books.... (3/7/2011 1:30:36 AM)

I recently read an article, Computer World or US News maybe, that speculated that Amazon makes so much from the e-books they may start giving the Kindle away for free. Since the book format on the Kindle is proprietery, it might work for them. The Amazon CEO, whose name I can't remember, Bezios?, didn't confirm or deny the report.



Adam Parker -> RE: Digital books.... (3/7/2011 4:14:39 AM)

Digital prices are indeed on the rise but in a country like Australia where local publishing houses are being given import protection, many fiction titles are still unavailable in digital form. Go figure.

That said, I'm still an avid Kindle supporter but here's a recent epiphany:

I downloaded the iPhone Kindle App and WOW! What a mind blowing experience.

First off, everything on my actual Kindles is now in full color. Everything has a better formatting and the inteface - it's just a pure delight. Highlighting with the yellow effect is a dream. Browsing is so much simpler. Page turning is lightning quick.

I leave my Kindle behind now and read on my iPhone. The Kindle of course isn't backlit, so the iPhone is perfect then too.

Yes, I still love my printed books - always will - and in the case of some reference books like a thesaurus, A-Z format guides and books requiring illustration, paper remains the way to go.

However, with the popularity of digital reading, manufacturers are also going to need to step up their quality control. Still too many typos and formatting issues. Wayward lines, split words, pagination and paragraphing losses etc. This will determine whether the benefits of the printed book will ever be outweighed. The industry still has a very long way to go.

Yet, personally, for now? The last 5 books I've read have been on my "Kindles". I've got a le Carre novel spinning full speed right at the moment [:)]



Adam Parker -> RE: Digital books.... (3/7/2011 4:22:22 AM)

Btw , following from what RedArgo wrote, the Kindle iPhone App is free of course [;)]

So free (or much cheaper) Kindles down the track? Make sense.

PS: I wonder how much their "free" global WhisperSync download service is ccosting them? Could this be why prices are slowly rising?



E -> RE: Digital books.... (3/7/2011 5:09:21 AM)

Civilian: I hope I'm not crowding you. What's the matter? Don't you like books?

Man in Uniform: Oh, I like them fine, but a computer takes less space.

Civilian: A computer, huh? I got one of these in my office. Contains all the precedents, a synthesis of all the great legal decisions written throughout time. - I never use it. - Why not? I've got my own system. Books, young man, books. Thousands of them. If time wasn't so important, I'd show you something-- my library. Thousands of books. - What would be the point? - This is where the law is, not in that homogenized, pasteurized, synthesized-- Do you want to know the law, the ancient concepts in their own language, Learn the intent of the men who wrote them, from Moses to the tribunal of Alpha 3? Books.

Man in Uniform: You have to be either an obsessive crackpot who's escaped from his keeper or Samuel T. Cogley, attorney-at-law.



Fred98 -> RE: Digital books.... (3/7/2011 6:04:45 AM)

1. Does Kindle use PDF format?

2. Does the iPad use PDF format?

-




Adam Parker -> RE: Digital books.... (3/7/2011 6:45:05 AM)

Hi Joe, I read PDF's on my Kindles and Apples.

As for their commercial book formats I believe Amazon's Kindle and Apple's iBooks are proprietory beasts (Kindle can be read on Apple but iBooks is Apple alone - interesting).

Side note: The iPad 2 is moving in the right direction imo. Thinner and lighter, will make the Kindle, Nook, Kobi etc., defunct eventually, I feel - especially if the screen can be kept clean. There's a new clip on magnetic microfibre cover for the v2. Looks nifty.

I don't know if I'll succumb this year but iPad v3 could be a goer [;)]

But my Thesaurus will always be paper!!



sterckxe -> RE: Digital books.... (3/7/2011 7:51:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hgilmer3
I looked at a book this morning that was just put into paperback. Digital cost - $19.99. Paperback cost $6.45. Publisher - Random House.

I'll buy all my damned books used if I have to. I'd rather give my money to some guy selling his used book online than giving that much for a digital book.


I've got a digital subscription to Battlegames Magazine and the Classic Wargamers Journal - and they are a fair amount cheaper than the printed version which for a read-once-and-store magazine is perfect, but almost all my books I buy second-hand at Amazon as currently digital books are ridiculously expensive. I'll revise my strategy when prices drop - and they will.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



SuluSea -> RE: Digital books.... (3/7/2011 8:44:52 PM)

In the month or less that I've owned a Kindle I've seen some books rise as much as 4 dollars. Unless you have money to blow or want it for reading PDF files/game manuals I'd urge you to hold off on the purchase. I've noted many books I can get cheaper buying used or in a few cases buying physical copys new.



Lützow -> RE: Digital books.... (3/7/2011 10:01:43 PM)

The majority of e-books are a pure rip-off, at least where I live. Considering the fact that publishers save a) production costs and b) dealer commission, they are still way too pricey. However, there exists some exceptions though. I occasionally buy O'Reilly computer books for my iPhone, as these are up to 90% cheaper in comparison to paperback issues and also available on iPad (which I'm probably going to pick later this year) in a reasonable size for reading.

On the other hand, the DRM ties me to iTunes and once I would switch to another platform, all my purchased e-books are lost. It doesn't matter if you currently use Kindle, iPad or whatever, as long as it includes a copy protection scheme. Sooner or later somebody will invent a better device or another OS and then you're screwed. Unlike software, books don't age and many are still interesting to read in decades.

So I'm rather careful with acquirements here and solely buy e-books which are either pretty cheap or not worth to keep anyway.



Fred98 -> RE: Digital books.... (3/7/2011 11:35:51 PM)

Today I have a laptop, tomorrow I have a Kindle, the next day a Samsung tablet, and the next day an iPad.

When I buy an electronic book, I would like to be able to read it on each of those devices as I see fit.

If I can't do that, I am not interested in electronic books
-





Phatguy -> RE: Digital books.... (3/7/2011 11:40:07 PM)

I am not interested in e-books at all



jwarrenw13 -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 12:41:50 AM)

I would much rather have a physical book than an ebook. In my opinion, a physical book is much easier to use, to read, to manipulate, than an ebook. And I'm not anti-technology. I love technology. I've got my phone, my desktop computer, my laptop, my ipod touch that I use as a mini-laptop around the house, work with computers at work all the time. I like the idea of ebooks and as a techer believe ebook technology will replace physical textbooks within the next 10 years and thus eliminate the school backpack. But I still think a physical book is a better tool than an ebook. As for the price, it is what the market will bear. I like the idea of Amazon giving away kindles. I would get one if they gave one away -- I assume with a certain amount of book purchases. If they gave a reasonable deal, I would get one.

Just this January I saw my first kindles at school. I teach at a high school in Louisiana. Two students brought in kindles after Christmas. Their parents bought them. They are avid readers, unlike many of my students. I would hope that e-technology would make more kids avid readers, but so far I haven't seen it. It is simply something that the avid readers are going to get.



jwarrenw13 -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 12:43:59 AM)

Here btw is an article on the idea of Amazon giving away Kindles. Looks like it might well happen. I would assume the catch would be a certain amount of book purchases to go with it.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-03-04/tech/amazon.free.kindle_1_barnes-noble-nook-e-reader-e-book-market?_s=PM:TECH



Adam Parker -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 1:03:41 AM)

Thanks for the link JW. It mentions my point earlier:

"In a way, Amazon has already been giving away Kindles for awhile -- in the form of the free Kindle smartphone, tablet, and computer apps... The Kindle's core business model has always been to sell books, not devices. "


The one huge advantage I'm finding with my Kindle books is the highlighting and note taking. At the end of the exercize, I have a digitized record of everything that I can then browse and tranpose to a document later. Done right, it can even serve as a synopsis of a cpomplex book.

As for Joe's note above, I think the Amazon business model has it right. If there's a potential platform around, they want us to be able to read their books on it. See pic below.

Thing is, where will Amazon or any of the eBook bastions be in decades to come? Therefore, whenever I find I book I really love or value, I'll still buy a physical copy too. Remember, there are just some books today that still must be physical for their size, structure or illustrations.

I therefore think of Kindle as a convenience thing - a wonderful idea that makes reading and research for me so much easier in certain cases. That's why I buy its books.

However, it will never replace or serve as my personal library.

[image]local://upfiles/6105/6BCCE657AE9047138AEA7A8ADAA6A30B.jpg[/image]



jomni -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 1:37:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

Today I have a laptop, tomorrow I have a Kindle, the next day a Samsung tablet, and the next day an iPad.

When I buy an electronic book, I would like to be able to read it on each of those devices as I see fit.

If I can't do that, I am not interested in electronic books
-



Adam Parker's post shows that Amazon is trying hard to make kindle books available to a wide range of devices.
But one problem for me... Amazon does not sell Kindle books to my country!!![:@]
Most of the time they blame the publisher's restrictions.

Anyway, I use another ebook store instead which uses industry standard epub unlike proprietary kindle.



hgilmer3 -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 2:37:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: hgilmer3
I looked at a book this morning that was just put into paperback. Digital cost - $19.99. Paperback cost $6.45. Publisher - Random House.

I'll buy all my damned books used if I have to. I'd rather give my money to some guy selling his used book online than giving that much for a digital book.


I've got a digital subscription to Battlegames Magazine and the Classic Wargamers Journal - and they are a fair amount cheaper than the printed version which for a read-once-and-store magazine is perfect, but almost all my books I buy second-hand at Amazon as currently digital books are ridiculously expensive. I'll revise my strategy when prices drop - and they will.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



Exactly. In the last year and a half or so, Amazon was forced not to offer books at lower than what the publisher wants them to charge for. That is why they have the disclaimer that the publisher is the one that sets the price. These prices have made me rethink in exactly the way you are thinking.



hgilmer3 -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 2:42:31 AM)

HA!!! I was sent an email by the author of the book I was looking at and he said, "Thank you for bringing this to my attention. It is definitely the wrong price and I'll get it changed immediately." So, I go to Amazon and the price was dropped from 19.99 to 11.99. I may be tempted for this author, but other books, I probably will get a used.



Fred98 -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 4:11:16 AM)

I read 3 or 4 or more books per year. All non fiction.

I alwys chose the soft cover version over the hard cover because it is flexible.

These electronic readers are not flexible therefore I don't want one.

One day I can no longer get paper based books. As there are Kindle apps for most devices it seems the Kindle version is the way to go.

But I have no reason to have a Kindle device.

As for reading PDF files, I am suprised Kindles are not in colour.

-






JamesM -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 5:15:38 AM)

Kindles will read Mobipocket format and you can convert from PDF or other formats using the Mobipocket reading software or Calibre (http://calibre-ebook.com/).



Adam Parker -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 5:49:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hgilmer3

HA!!! I was sent an email by the author of the book I was looking at and he said, "Thank you for bringing this to my attention. It is definitely the wrong price and I'll get it changed immediately." So, I go to Amazon and the price was dropped from 19.99 to 11.99. I may be tempted for this author, but other books, I probably will get a used.


Way to go! [:)] It's good to see Amazon act fast too.



sterckxe -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 8:26:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesm
Kindles will read Mobipocket format and you can convert from PDF or other formats using the Mobipocket reading software or Calibre (http://calibre-ebook.com/).


A wargame buddy of mine both has the Kindle DX (the large 10 inch one) and an Apple iPad so I got to play with both of them reading the same ruleset in pdf format. If the only thing you've ever experienced is the Kindle, it works fine, but if you've ever used the iPad you'll drop the Kindle in an instant. The iPad is waaaaaay faster and has colour and if it wasn't for Apple's closed-shop approach which I dispise I would have gotten myself an iPad months ago.

Waiting for Motorolla, HP, Dell, Acer and Asus to get their act together on 10 inch tablets that run Android 3.0 or even Windows 7

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



nelmsm1 -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 11:55:05 AM)

I've never had a problem with Kindle speed.  As for the color, to do that you need it backlit don't you.  Then you face the same eye strain as staring at a computer screen for a long time.  I have got a Kindle full of books and a lot of them I bought for less then the usual standard of $9.99, many were free or $0.99.  As for being flexible, how can something that doesn't have opposite sides like a book be flexible.  I've got a jacket on mine and I like the feel of the suede on my hands.  I've increased my fiction reading quite a bit since I got my Kindle and I don't go to a doctor's office or travel with out it.



sterckxe -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 1:19:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelmsm
I've never had a problem with Kindle speed. 


Just load a graphic heavy PDF on it - like a Matrix game manual - how long does it take to flip 5 pages ? 3-5 seconds ? On the iPad it takes less than a second - once you've experienced that the Kindle just feels slow and old.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelmsm
As for the color, to do that you need it backlit don't you.  Then you face the same eye strain as staring at a computer screen for a long time. 


Doesn't bother me - what bothers me with the Kindle is that it isn't backlit meaning you can't do anything with in in bad lighting. And when you live here bad light on overcast days is the norm.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



ilovestrategy -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 3:46:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: E

Civilian: I hope I'm not crowding you. What's the matter? Don't you like books?

Man in Uniform: Oh, I like them fine, but a computer takes less space.

Civilian: A computer, huh? I got one of these in my office. Contains all the precedents, a synthesis of all the great legal decisions written throughout time. - I never use it. - Why not? I've got my own system. Books, young man, books. Thousands of them. If time wasn't so important, I'd show you something-- my library. Thousands of books. - What would be the point? - This is where the law is, not in that homogenized, pasteurized, synthesized-- Do you want to know the law, the ancient concepts in their own language, Learn the intent of the men who wrote them, from Moses to the tribunal of Alpha 3? Books.

Man in Uniform: You have to be either an obsessive crackpot who's escaped from his keeper or Samuel T. Cogley, attorney-at-law.




Kirk is my hero! [&o]

I haven't found one e book service that has my favorite series, The Belgariad and The Malloreon by David Eddings. Until I do, it's physical books for me.



Canoerebel -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 5:16:41 PM)

I love to read. I carry books with me when I go hiking, backpacking, and moutain biking. I read while eating lunch on a cliff overlooking a valley, in my tent deep into the night, and while eating lunch on a dirt road in the heart of a forest. I read every night, even if I've just gotten in from a ten hour drive after a visit with relatives far way. Many nights I lay the book I'm reading on my chest and fall asleep, only to find it there the next morning. I love pouring over maps. I read the newspaper daily and have since I was in high school.

I love to read, but I will never use an electronic reading device. Just a personal choice, but I can't imagine replacing the printed word with a digital device. I"ll never do it.

It will be interesting to see how the printed word fairs against electronic devices in coming decades, as new generations growing up mainly with digital things age, and the "old fashioned" folks age and begin to fade away. I think there will always be a place for the printed word (I'm counting on it, since I'm in the business), but it's going to be a strange new world in fifteen or twenty years.



nelmsm1 -> RE: Digital books.... (3/8/2011 11:32:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelmsm
I've never had a problem with Kindle speed. 


Just load a graphic heavy PDF on it - like a Matrix game manual - how long does it take to flip 5 pages ? 3-5 seconds ? On the iPad it takes less than a second - once you've experienced that the Kindle just feels slow and old.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelmsm
As for the color, to do that you need it backlit don't you.  Then you face the same eye strain as staring at a computer screen for a long time. 


Doesn't bother me - what bothers me with the Kindle is that it isn't backlit meaning you can't do anything with in in bad lighting. And when you live here bad light on overcast days is the norm.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx



I've not had any slowdown with the Panzer Command manual but I don't think it's very graphic heavy. I keep a booklight with my jacket so low light isn't a problem.



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