RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (Full Version)

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barbrady -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/10/2011 7:54:56 AM)

I would suggest to remove research labs from space ports designs and build dedicated research stations or special space port with research facilities to achieve the research potential of the colony and to get bonuses from special locations.

The main problem with AI:

-Doesn't build dedicated station on the first years so it wastes research potential of the colony
-Building research facilities on each space port leads to high maintenance cost (the research capacity on mid game is major than the research potential of your colony) , so the AI has less money than a player who manages the research station / space port correctly

Solving this doesn't seem too difficult, simply remove research facilities from space port design, and build special space ports (new design needed) / research dedicated station to achieve your research potential. This will give the AI less maintenance costs and more research output during all the game.



barbrady -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/10/2011 8:09:35 AM)

ummmm and simplifying even more, you could argue that scientists can not work with all the noise produced at space ports, so space ports can not handle research facilities. The player / AI should build research stations to do research and manage them correctly.



Bingeling -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/10/2011 11:40:00 AM)

It is actually a decent proposal.

You can argue that there is no reason why such a module could not be placed on a space port. But then I would ask ... why do you have to build it in space?

One could remove the space port labs, and give some background research outcome from colony populations and planet sizes. To make things easy this could be a percentage of the research potential. And then you have to build research stations to fill the gap, as really fancy research must be at a quiet spot in space...

To make more sense, require all labs to be at a research location, and make more (weak) research locations. So finding a spot to build is not hard, but finding a good spot is a little harder.

I think the complaints about slow AI research expansion compared to players, are more a problem of game design than poor AI. The massive human research buildup has a feeling of being loopholeish.



Caesar_Augustus -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/10/2011 11:52:15 AM)

Interesting... but since I have not experimented extensively with this "issue",
I wonder how can the players tell if AI-empires are slower at tech expansion?
By the use of the editor?

And in any case, I would imgaine that a fairly simple "workaround" is, in addition to the above-mentioned tweaks,
the tweaking of the research percentage increase in the races.txt for the empires you want.





Litjan -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/10/2011 11:55:37 AM)

I would like to take things even a bit further: Why not just do away with research labs for generating the basic research points? Let´s have the population generate research automatically (it is just some mouseclicks to build the research stations around your homeplanet, anyway).

We could then concentrate on the fun part of building research stations at research locations to get those juicy boni - something exciting and worth fighting about.



barbrady -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/10/2011 12:17:20 PM)

I like litjan proposal too. It's easy to improve the current situation.

"I wonder how can the players tell if AI-empires are slower at tech expansion? "

Easy, on earlier game, simply go with your explorers and see what the AI is building. AI does a decent job with mining, fleets, expansion (latest patches)... but not with research.

On later game as the AI uses the default design to build space ports it has a lot of research capacity, more than needed, so it wastes a lot of maney on unnecesary research facilities.



Bingeling -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/10/2011 12:27:33 PM)

It is very easy to learn how the AI does stuff.

Let the AI run your empire, and watch the results...

The AI is good at building resort and research bases, but not until it locate suitable bonus locations. (Resort outside one would not make sense, anyways).

Players retrofit to 10 of each lab on their starting port for almost no money, and just stuff single lab station at the best bonus locations. If they need more, they retrofit more. This is loopholey.



hewwo -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/11/2011 5:37:32 PM)

+1 for litjan's idea. It would really improve the research mechanics. Cut away the fat and concentrate on the fun stuff!



Merker -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/12/2011 11:52:18 AM)

hmm, generally I tend to just leave the AI to do my research, and it all works balanced enough for everyone. Anyway, most of the time the other AI empires end up outteching me if I'm not building my custom bases or am with the humans. I just can't help not building the compiled space lab tough, it seems way too odd for me to build dedicated labs next to each other. And it all balances out from what I've seen, the AI doesn't build any more labs if you build a high yield custom base with lots of labs. It also becomes a target for your enemies and it's a risk to lose your whole research potential, or at least a large part of it so it becomes balanced.

I love being outteched though, makes the game MUCH more interesting, needing 2-3 ships to take out one of theirs of the same class.



Shuul -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/18/2011 7:27:03 PM)

Isn't it like a week after that last beta patch? Maybe its time to release official update?



Data -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/18/2011 8:00:37 PM)

Maybe they noticed some of our feedback and they prepare some more fixes for the official one. I'd like that, waitning is not a problem.



Simulation01 -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 4:37:22 AM)

sigh



tjhkkr -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 4:39:56 AM)

There has been very little activity on the forum these last few days; I am wondering if there are issues.



tornnight -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 4:56:07 AM)

I think it's the opposite. Everyone is too busy playing to get on the board.



J HG T -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 8:01:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tornnight

I think it's the opposite. Everyone is too busy playing to get on the board.


We concur. Happy people are quiet people.



Data -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 8:02:19 AM)

There are always issues: exterminating monsters, getting that loros moon, pest control etc etc [:)]



Sithuk -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 10:06:14 AM)

This version is definitely playable. We're all likely stuck in our space sand pits.

I'm looking forward to the externalisation of as much of the game as possible. Then the real fun begins: game balancing and community mods.



Igard -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 4:33:46 PM)

Hmmm.. I think this version is great. No apparent bugs that I can find so why not release a full version?

There are lots of players who don't download the beta patches so they're long overdue an update.



Data -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 7:19:08 PM)

That was the plan last time we were updated, I hope the hold up is due to more goodies. I know, I know, it's wishful thinking [:)]



Caesar_Augustus -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 8:34:41 PM)

I'm sure there will be more goodies in the next patch,
since Elliot and Erik are good developers.
Patience.

And dear friends, I haven't been playing very much,
I've been feeling very down lately. I'm a rather a
sensitive soul and things affect me pretty much.
Can't help it, but this time it's taking its toll on me.

And for all the galactic emperor I am, enjoying destroying
planets with the Death Star, that doesn't mean I haven't got a heart.

Just airing out a bit. Thanks, all.



Igard -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 9:50:44 PM)

Hope you feel better soon, Caesar. There's alot of turmoil in the world right now. What we could do with a bit of imperial order, eh?

@Data, More goodies would require another beta patch. It just seems like an ideal time to release a full update via the installer.

That way alot of folks who don't download the beta patches will get an update. Unless Erik and Elliot have looked at the numbers and most every DW player is running the beta patch anyway?



Data -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 10:08:14 PM)

I agree entirely and I think that's their target as well.
Since it's rather easy to rollback to a pre-beta state I'd be surprised if many of us can abstain from trying the newest stuff [:)]



Shuul -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 10:21:35 PM)

I can[8D] I never use beta patches, dont want to ruin game experience if something goes wrong with it. So ill just wait.



Caesar_Augustus -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 10:24:13 PM)

Thank you, Igard. True enough, the world is in a bit of upheaval,
but it's my own interior world that needs some imperial order, too.

Oh I'll survive this, but I fear I'm on the brink of losing hope,
and that's pretty bad.

I try to remember Tolkien's "There is always hope", and I truly
believe it, but at the moment it's very hard for me.
I don't remember ever feeling quite this way before.

Thanks again.



alexalexuk -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 10:29:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Caesar_Augustus

Thank you, Igard. True enough, the world is in a bit of upheaval,
but it's my own interior world that needs some imperial order, too.

Oh I'll survive this, but I fear I'm on the brink of losing hope,
and that's pretty bad.

I try to remember Tolkien's "There is always hope", and I truly
believe it, but at the moment it's very hard for me.
I don't remember ever feeling quite this way before.

Thanks again.


Focus on whats important in life.

Dont focus on the past, focus on the future.





JamesM -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 10:48:24 PM)

Has anyone encountered an issue in this beta where construction ships when assigned to manual task, never seem to complete them?



Caesar_Augustus -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 10:56:21 PM)

Yes well, I do believe I am focusing on what's important in life.
That's why I feel the way I do...

But thanks, alexalexuk.



Igard -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 11:14:49 PM)

Maybe I'll soon have a little Star Trek mod update to cheer you up.[:)]



tjhkkr -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/19/2011 11:41:52 PM)

I agree that it is a good sign when the tech issues forum has not had a single new report in 3 days (as of 3/19).



Simulation01 -> RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available! (3/20/2011 12:55:06 AM)

I don't download Beta patches.  One because I don't have time to play test for the developers and help out, and two because the last time I did that they made a change to it and then made it official....when I tried to then go through the installer to update the beta to the newest version it did not work.  I had to uninstall the game and delete any mention of it in the root directory and reinstall to get it to work correctly again.  That wound up my beta test downloads.


quote:

Thank you, Igard. True enough, the world is in a bit of upheaval,
but it's my own interior world that needs some imperial order, too.

Oh I'll survive this, but I fear I'm on the brink of losing hope,
and that's pretty bad.

I try to remember Tolkien's "There is always hope", and I truly
believe it, but at the moment it's very hard for me.
I don't remember ever feeling quite this way before.

Thanks again.



"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, Plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future..."  ~Jeremiah 29:11

“Frodo: I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened. Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” ~Tolkien




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