temptation in the custom campaigns (Full Version)

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kao16 -> temptation in the custom campaigns (12/22/2000 8:46:00 AM)

Reading various posts I have only seen one admission of using another nations tanks in a custom campaign (U2R, WF, etc) and that was a recent post from Alexandra confessing to upgrading a destroyed sherman to jagd panther (captured) in U2R - but she gave a good excuse, I probably would have done the same in the circumstances if I had though of it (one of the problems of playing between 10pm and 2am). But has anyone been tempted to use the nation button when buying their original core? I know I was tempted to buy a section of Fireflys in U2R, and comparing panzershreck (sp?) teams with the US M9 Bazooka teams I'm tempted to buy M9s for WF. Is there a reason why people buy their initial core from the US (U2R) or German (WF), do YOU feel guilty just thinking about....buying Tigers/Fireflys/GE SP Rockets for US, M9 Bazooka for Germans etc ... or are we just not thinking /forgetting about the ability to diversify our list of suppliers of military equipment?



ZinZan -> (12/22/2000 9:13:00 AM)

Personally I have always preferred (in any wargame) to try and use purely 'historical' units and equipment. I am very interested in military history and my wargaming has grown out of that, so I guess it just feels too wrong using incorrect equipment. ------------------ peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk



Alexandra -> (12/22/2000 9:51:00 AM)

I have, actually, in "Preparing the Way". I've made Task Force Freedom, a multinational TF. Historical? No. Fun, yeah [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Here's it's OOB: A0 HQ B Polish Infantry Platoon C Polish 2 tank section (which is part of the Inf Platoon in the Polish '42 OOB - way cool!) D Belgian Inf Platoon E Greek Inf Platoon F Canadian Engineer Platoon G Anzac Commando Section - these guys rock! H + I Wolverine Platoons and J Scouts They've done pretty well, so far, though I've shelved them to play the much more evil U2R.



victorhauser -> (12/22/2000 12:54:00 PM)

I regularly purchase support units from the area where a battle is being fought. For instance if I'm playing the US in a long campaign in the Pacific (which I do a lot), then I'll often buy Philippine support units when fighting in the Philippines, Dutch support in Java, etc. But I try not to mix nationalities within my core. However, even for those inclined to "history", there are a variety of historical examples of multinational "core" units operating together for extended periods of time. The US-Canadian Special Forces Brigade is one that immediately comes to mind. And the US 442nd RCT might have possibilities of using Japanese units (edited to fit US Army TO/Es) alongside "standard" US Army units in Italy and France. Hey, Wild Bill, maybe there is a new campaign possibility here. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] [This message has been edited by victorhauser (edited December 22, 2000).]



skukko -> (12/22/2000 5:21:00 PM)

Interesting core Alex' [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Oh yes, I'll use nation buttom sometimes, when it's close to historically point of view. Russians had lots of new equipment after summer -43 leaved behind by germans, and taken from surrended armies. They had hundreds of Pz Iv:s for example. Allthought US or Brits at west front couln't catch Tiger alive, and if you buy Tiger company to Russians you are cheating history, but it's your decision. Sovjets had one Tiger, which were captured in -42. I think it was Fprados site that has more info of that. Bazookas! I want to have them in my axis units, but onlý bazookas, not smilies... I've made at past full multinational Battlegroup and played it with SP2-Modern Warfare at Korean Campaign. I had WW2 equipment, so far it's available in that game and I edited whole core to be as a fanatics who escapes from Europe after WW2. It was great to play and watch how far they are able to survive, because they had no reinforcements. But that is another story. mosh



Alexandra -> (12/22/2000 10:52:00 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by skukko: [B]Interesting core Alex' [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Thanks Skukko. It's fun to play, too. Another option for a totally historical use of the nation button is using Russian 76.2mm AT guns with the Africa Corps starting in late April/early May of 1942. Acccording to MG von Mellenthin, in 'Panzer Battles', Rommel started getting them at that time. Alex



Charles22 -> (12/23/2000 1:53:00 AM)

Alexandra's use of multi-national forces, reminds me of an idea I had once upon a time, and that was to fight "against" multi-national forces. In other words, you would have no idea what was going to be thrown up against you. Picking your own multi-national force, would probably only interest me insofar as I would pick an "all-star" army, like I used to do with baseball and football card games. Perhaps you could combine US/Germany to fight the USSR, and have the Tiger alongside the marines and the 42HMG alongside the Chaffee. If you wanted the USSR as multi-national, you could have Japanese infantry alongside USSR armor (notice I've intermingled Axis and Allied forces). That scenario would sort of be, the best of the West against the best of the East.



Wild Bill -> (12/23/2000 2:17:00 PM)

This is part of the appeal of campaigns...a big part. The player picks his forces as HE chooses. He is not limited by history or the designer. Now if you are a history buff, you can seek to recreate the actual event with historically correct units. If you want to play around with units from other countries, that is okay too. Each one can make his own bed and then lie in it (or wallow in it, depending on the result [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] ) WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Musashi -> (12/27/2000 12:23:00 PM)

I know I was tempted to buy a section of Fireflys in U2R, and comparing panzershreck (sp?) teams with the US M9 Bazooka teams I'm tempted to buy M9s for WF. Is there a reason why people buy their initial core from the US (U2R) or German (WF), do YOU feel guilty just thinking about....buying Tigers/Fireflys/GE SP Rockets for US, M9 Bazooka for Germans etc ... or are we just not thinking /forgetting about the ability to diversify our list of suppliers of military equipment?[/B][/QUOTE] Actually citing historical correctness may not be a valid point for not using the nation button. Of the weapons mentioned many would under certain cases be accurate. Panzerschreks we're developed from captured bazookas (if memory serves). The British did loan the US Army some Fireflys. Also, obviously the captured vehical possibilities are pretty wide, especially for the Germans. And the lend lease vehicals in the Soviet OB is NOT exhaustive, didn't they recieve M4a3e8s? Musashi



panda124c -> (12/28/2000 10:47:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Musashi: Actually citing historical correctness may not be a valid point for not using the nation button. Of the weapons mentioned many would under certain cases be accurate. Panzerschreks we're developed from captured bazookas (if memory serves). The British did loan the US Army some Fireflys. Also, obviously the captured vehical possibilities are pretty wide, especially for the Germans. And the lend lease vehicals in the Soviet OB is NOT exhaustive, didn't they recieve M4a3e8s? Musashi
Don't forget all the captured weapons use againt their former owners. Patton shelled Metz with captured German artillery. The Paratroops on Sicily stopped a German conterattack with a captured Italian AT. The Americans were very good a 'aquireing' other peoples equipment, particularly if the equipment was better. The Germans preferred the 'Burp' gun to the MP's, you did not have to keep them spotless to work.



Irinami -> (10/15/2002 9:53:42 PM)

While I agree that choosing foreign equipment is historic, I also believe it should be tempered by certain considerations such as:

Did foreign nations donate/lend equipment to my nation?

What was the quantity of this equipment total, and how many would be assigned to a company?

Have I as a commander proven my worth enough that my superiors would assign such equipment to me/not confiscate it from me?

Did my nation have a reputation for using captured equipment? (USSR most certainly did--all the articles on Soviets using Panzers and such, eh?)

Were there any foreign units permanently (core) or temporarily (aux) attached to my nation's units in the war that I could justify this purchase with?

Am I trying to win the game? Or am I trying to see how well I could do if given similar situations as a WWII commander?

Just my $0.02, American.



ruxius -> (10/22/2002 4:05:34 AM)

when playing cooperative Utah to Rhine campaign,during assault on Siegfried line I bought Anzac commandos rather than rangers to spend less money and get more commandos units since objective flags were too many...

but I liked to consider those troops as available at the US high command...
I think it's fascinating to be free to play choosing units the way you like...but I prefer to be historical when playing 'officially'.


after Siegfried line my coooperative mate told me he would have bought JSII to have better armour thickness...

well....

fortunately we never had so much money to do that error :))))



Supervisor -> (10/22/2002 6:20:12 AM)

Wow here is an old thread revisited.



Brutto-Bob -> Using other nation's troops... (10/24/2002 5:47:37 PM)

I like to buy core forces using stuff trom a minor nation OOB.

For example: using Italians in the Stalingrad campaign; Poland, France or Canada in Fron Utah to ... or Normandy Gold ones, etc...

Sometimes I'm not historical: I've used Italians in Russian Steel (and British too, in one attempt...)

This because there aren't designed campaigns for these nations, and the CPU's generated ones are not a challenge.



Alexandra -> (10/24/2002 8:49:48 PM)

This is a little off topic, but, for those that don't know, I'm AARing Russian Steel over in the AAR forum. Come peek.

Alex



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