4.5 OOB Note and Comment (Full Version)

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Hauptmann6 -> 4.5 OOB Note and Comment (12/22/2000 10:31:00 AM)

4.5 Looks great so far! My savegames from 4.4 are working without a hitch so far... The german triple 15mm AA track would have 1 tripple 15mm AA gun not 3 seperate guns. It really hurts having 3 shots at an AC like that... Haupt



skukko -> (12/22/2000 5:35:00 PM)

Crews can kill a tank, still. Has there been terrain- or damage that terrain does to vehicle; - changes? Mosh



Arralen -> (12/22/2000 8:58:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Hauptmann6: The german triple 15mm AA track would have 1 tripple 15mm AA gun not 3 seperate guns. It really hurts having 3 shots at an AC like that...
Could you give the exact unit name ? Arralen



TheOriginalOverlord -> (12/22/2000 9:12:00 PM)

IIRC (without looking) It should be the 251/17 AA track. I think. ------------------ Semper Fi! Overlord



Alby -> (12/23/2000 1:34:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Arralen: Could you give the exact unit name ? Arralen
would that be the spw251/21 ??



TheOriginalOverlord -> (12/23/2000 1:52:00 AM)

Yup Alby is correct... my bad [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ------------------ Semper Fi! Overlord



Hauptmann6 -> (12/23/2000 2:21:00 AM)

It was the 21 IIRC. I was trying to kill them as fast as possible... Haupt



Blackbird -> (12/23/2000 7:01:00 PM)

Two possible bugs in Soviet OOB: What's the story with SO Marine Sqd? I didn't find any way to buy them, but it's possible to upgrade to them. And before they were guerrilla, but not any more. Why? SO Cossack are available only to end of 1941.This sure is a bug since Cossack formations are available to end of 1945.



Joe Osborne -> (12/23/2000 9:17:00 PM)

Looks like a problem with USMC 155 Gun Bty (not the 155 How Bty above it) it only contains the 75 mm How OBA no 155 at all.... Joe Osborne



Slayer -> (12/23/2000 9:29:00 PM)

I don't think that the Soviet OOB allowed me to buy Heavy AA-guns (76.2mm, 85mm).



Alby -> (12/23/2000 10:58:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Osborne: Looks like a problem with USMC 155 Gun Bty (not the 155 How Bty above it) it only contains the 75 mm How OBA no 155 at all.... Joe Osborne
Just keep hitting the tab for 155 gun btry, it will appear,Kind of like hitting refresh button, got some myself in game last night,



Charles22 -> (12/23/2000 11:21:00 PM)

German OOBs: HS129B-3, 75mm gun on unit. Max. penetration 12???????????????? Same with Ju87G-1. 37mm gun, max. 12 penetration??????????? No wonder the tank busters are lousy! The Ju88p-1 is more like it. It's max. penetration is 134.



Peregrine Falcon -> (12/23/2000 11:54:00 PM)

Ouch! That was bad! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Is British tank buster Hurricane there? I think it was missing from the OOBs a little while ago...
quote:

Originally posted by Charles22: [B] Same with Ju87G-1. 37mm gun, max. 12 penetration??????????? No wonder the tank busters are lousy! [B]



Randy -> (12/24/2000 12:55:00 AM)

Hi guys, I don't know if this is the right place to post a few problems I've noticed. The game works great but a couple of things from the past are still messed up. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] 1)The USMC LVT (A)4 (this is the 75mm armored amphibian- pic-0946/sym-165). This can't be bought in the battle generator. You have to go to the scenario editor to buy one, and then you have to use the change vehicle key. It is in the encyclopedia, but never appears in the buy list inventories! 2)The USMC LVT (A)1 (this is the armored amphibian with the M3 tank turret)shows the picture of the LVT 1 Alligator. 3)The pictures of the USMC 75mm M1A1 pack howitzer (sym654/pic8338) and the US Army 75mm M1897A2 howitzer (sym657/pic8338) both show a blur of color and no picture. 4)Finally the Hungarian K.V.50 tractor shows a jet aircraft out of SP2 or SP3 (looks like a MIG-23 Flogger). It looks like a jet on the ground that drives like a tractor! I hope these can still be corrected. Thanks Semper fi Randy



Paul Vebber -> (12/24/2000 2:38:00 AM)

Aircraft use penetration differently - actually the 134 is wrong...



Warhorse -> (12/24/2000 3:01:00 AM)

Randy, thanks for catching the tractor thing, I'll see what the problem is tonite! Question; by some strange instance, the shp folder didn't get nested did it? I downloaded it into a temp folder, and noticed both the pic, and shps were in their own folders, make sure this isn't the case!! ------------------ Mike Amos Meine Ehre Heisst Treue



Randy -> (12/24/2000 3:32:00 AM)

Warhorse, thanks for the info on the tractor thing. I just loaded the game directly, and honestly, I don't know that much about the different folders and have been leery of messing w/ them. Also do you know if the Marnine amtrac thing will get addressed? Its been that way all along with SPW@W, but not with SP1/SP3! Thanks Semper Fi Randy



Warhorse -> (12/24/2000 4:08:00 AM)

Hey Randy, if you go into explorer look in the shp folder, see if there is another folder of the same name within that, if it is, just copy the contents out of the second one, and paste into the main shp folder, then delete the nested one. Same with the pic folder, may have just been the way I did it, but will know for sure when I get home tonite, that icon was done awhile back, so it should be in there for sure!! ------------------ Mike Amos Meine Ehre Heisst Treue



Arralen -> (12/24/2000 6:55:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Charles22: German OOBs: HS129B-3, 75mm gun on unit. Max. penetration 12 Same with Ju87G-1. 37mm gun, max. 12 penetration The Ju88p-1 is more like it. It's max. penetration is 134.
Can't be: Hs 129B-3 and Ju 88P-1 use the same weapon (w#170 - 70mm Bk7.5) which is rated with PenHE134.
quote:

Paul Vebber Aircraft use penetration differently - actually the 134 is wrong...
Chris Paul told pointed out that it was essentially the Pak40 mounted on a plane, so I had to get it somewhere near the values of w#035 (PenAP 134). Maybe a bit overdone, thinking 'bout it now I would say PenHE 100 would have been ok. ?! Arralen



Arralen -> (12/24/2000 7:09:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Hauptmann6: The german triple 15mm AA track would have 1 tripple 15mm AA gun not 3 seperate guns.
It's the Spw-251/21. It does have a triple Mg 151 mount, correct. There are two different Mg151 in the OOB: w#220 MG 151/15 range:100 acc:44 w-head:2 Hekill:12 PenHE:27 (AA gun) w#238 MG 151 range:24 acc:40 wh:2 HEkill:5 PenHe:30 (A/C gun) The spw251 uses the first one .. in slot 1..3; could be that the HEkill is a bit too high, but have a look at a .50-AA-MG: range:80 acc:36 wh:1 HEkill:12 PenHE:24 ??? Comment please, Paul ? Arralen



TheOriginalOverlord -> (12/24/2000 7:40:00 AM)

Posted this over on the OOB forum but traffic is slow. In an earlier post I mention the US 60mm mortars http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/003083.html they are basically identical but the game has one with normal range and the other with a much shorter range. Also, in the FJ squads one has an FJ Gewehr 42 and another has an FG42. In the OOB these weapons are identical in performace. the proper name would be the FG 42 one. In both cases you could remove the offending weapon and free up just a little more room in the OOB's If you freed up one of those rifles slots you could then make it a "triple" 151/15 same range and accuracy just up the HE kill by 3 to simulate the three single 151's the 251/21 now has. HTH ------------------ Semper Fi! Overlord [This message has been edited by Overlord (edited December 23, 2000).]



Hauptmann6 -> (12/24/2000 7:46:00 AM)

Arralen, what I was saying is it should have 1 triple 15mm mount like the US quad 50s not 3 seperate single 15s. Having 3 shots makes the vehicle much more powerfull than it shoul dbe as compared to the M16 quad 50.



S35 -> (12/24/2000 7:41:00 PM)

I have v4.5 and I notice that Stug H-42 are no more available in stug Co plt or sec or anywhere. Thanks to Matrix team for the joy of play it give to me. Happy Christmas



Wild Bill -> (12/24/2000 9:35:00 PM)

No Russian Cossacks! At least I can't find them! ARGH! Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Blackbird -> (12/24/2000 9:49:00 PM)

Yes you can, but only 'til the end of 1941. But why are no SO Marines available for buying? Where should they be? I can only upgrade to them.



Charles22 -> (12/26/2000 9:15:00 PM)

Peregrine Falcon: Hurricane? Hadn't noticed, I wasn't sure any air force had ATGs mounted on the planes, other than the Gerrys and possibly the Sturmovik for the USSR. Paul Vebber: Yeah the penetration of 134 is most definitely too high, but if nothing else, the 37mm and 75mm gun penetrate the same. No matter what different system is being used for tank busting (I use the term "busting" loosely, because though I don't have extensive play with the tank-busters, it seems that they don't bust any, even on top hits) those two guns should have some difference I would think. There's another Ju88 which has a 50mm gun, and I don't think it is on the 12 low end either. How does this compare to the rockets, or are the rockets on yet a different penetration system? [This message has been edited by Charles22 (edited December 26, 2000).]



Peregrine Falcon -> (12/26/2000 10:39:00 PM)

Hurricane IID, equipped with 40mm Vickers Class "S" 40 mm gun (IIRC firing AP/APCR/HE) More here: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/sgun.htm I'm pretty sure it was in SPWW2 OOB's - so where is it now?? If I remember correctly it was pretty effective against tanks in North Africa and served also in Far East (mainly against transports at sea & trucks)
quote:

Originally posted by Charles22: [B]Peregrine Falcon: Hurricane? Hadn't noticed, I wasn't sure any air force had ATGs mounted on the planes, other than the Gerrys and possibly the Sturmovik for the USSR. [B]



Paul Vebber -> (12/27/2000 12:34:00 AM)

Arralen - I have to check to code, but I think aircraft ar still using cm instead of mm, so you have to divide the "real" penetration you want by 10. I will try t find out, but it may take a few days...pretty busy this week! [This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited December 26, 2000).]



Charles22 -> (12/27/2000 1:07:00 AM)

Paul Vebber: So if I understand you correctly, the JU88 with the 75mm gun, should have a pen. of 13.4, correct? Still, that doesn't account for the 37mm on the Stuka (which if the '12' is stated in cm, should mean 12.0 [or 120mm - way too high I suppose]) and the 75mm on the HS129 being the same 12 rating.



BlitzSS -> (12/27/2000 1:27:00 AM)

quote: ---------------------------------------------Originally posted by BlitzSS: I’ve also noticed that this same gun out ranges the 37mm (range of 30 hexes) by 5 hexes. I can try to research this again, or try to find my old tables from when I made PZ Leader counters with Grant/Lee tanks. What I found went against what my instincts told me, and that is that the 37mm (in the Grant/Lee tank only, and not the Sherman’s 75) out ranged the 75mm. This was mostly, if not entirely, due to the optics, because the fact that the 75mm gun was hurriedly fitted into this framework to race this badly needed retrofit out to N. Africa --------------------------------------------- hey blitz, just a confirmation that you aren't going nuts. i pulled out my old AH tobruk game and checked the ranges for the grant tank. (Desert has always been my fav theatre and not coincidently the grant and pzIIIj my favorite tanks). The 37mmM6 has a max range of 2025 meters (27 hex range at 75 metres per hex) while the 75mmM2 has a max range of 1750 metres (17 hexes). happy hunting -------------------------------------------- Here is the math to an OOB problem plaging some of my designs.



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