RE: Bloody Skies

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Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 4:23:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel As the British army surgeon keeps saying in Bridge on the River Kwai, "Madness...madness!" Failure to impose an airtight blockade on Karachi is pure folly (sorry, rader, if you ever read this; but attacking while letting the Allies readily move in supplies and reinforcements over many months is NUTS!). You have the RN carriers in theater, right? So now you can shut down enemy combat ship movement in the Arabian Sea? You can also at least toy with the idea of a counterinvasion using some of your Aden reinforcements. You have to be alert to LBA, but he can't have alot covering his rear areas with so much pestering Karachi (or so I think). You might use bad weather to good advantage here. Mainly, though, you need to be doing some offensive thinking and planning now. Rader doesn't realize it; you may not believe it, but the Battle of Karachi is already decided. Hello to all. Now up on my new uber-PC, and back in the forum. I fully support what you say above, CR. My comments re saving supply at Karachi by grounding the 4Es was predicated on a supply blockade. Aden simply gets too many independent supply convoys to supliment its organic suppply (plus LOD freebies) to allow the steady flow into Karahci Rader has allowed. He needed to nail the KB to the map edge and finish the job in India, not leave it to DD raiders. Allowing Forts to go to 9 was also a Bad Move. His whole operational schedule has been pokey, and now, in October, he's too late to reduce Karachi befroe the Med opens up in May 1943 and GJ can marshall any amount of forces, unseen, through Aden, ready to careen down into the IO to commit mass carnage, Inchon-type landings, flow in 50 new, modern fleet subs, etc. Rader has screwed the pooch.

jeffk3510 -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 4:24:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel (accidentally posted this in my own AAR first - it's GJ's fault, or so I claim) You're still thinking defensive! Snap out of it, man! In late 1942 and early '43, the Indian units begin to transition over to higher quality squads and armaments. They become much more powerful. In addition, you get more and better fighters, and to a lesser extent bombers. It's going to be a long time, if ever, before rader can impose control of the skies over Karachi from Hyderabad, so you'll get alot more supplies in the meantime. If you need some carriers to handle CAP to get supply to Karachi, devote your sizeable CVE component over the coming months. If necessary, you can almost certainly run the blockade from Capetown to Aden without too much risk from Socatra. It might also give you a chance to evaluate Socotra's strength as you sneak by and thumb your nose at a frustrated enemy. Once you gain carriers in the Arabian Sea, you'll feel better about your offensive capaibility. But don't lollygag. What happens in the Pacific is still fairly unimportant compared to India. It's good that you're making some progress in the Solomons, but that's a long way from vital territory for Japan. There's no place he'd rather have you advancing than there. Where is this Socotra you speak of? I thought it was officially Scoooooodra! [:D] But yes GJ, you can probably focus more attention elsewhere as he (Rader) has made if obvious that Karachi will, indeed, hold. What do you subs look like in SoPac, NoPac, Formosa, PI, Solomons, etc....

Andy Mac -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 4:34:41 PM)
Just remember the following. 1. You have massed Flak at Karachi he will NOT be able to bomb you much certainly not low level 2. That means surface raiders will be his primary inderdition force. 3. Allied Destroyers and subs on defence will cause mayhem to any raiders he sends in. Right now I owuld be focussing everything I had not on deep and dangerous strikes but on the following. 1. Build up North Australia and drive into Timor ASAP 2. Take New Britain and its good harbour and AF's as well as the Solomons - this will give you a secure footing for a late 43 drive on the PI Your opponent has committed a large AF and army to India and taken heavy losses if you can get into New Britain it gives you multiple exploitable routes of attack NG - Merauke - Ambon North Australia - Timor - Java North Australia - Timor - Kendari Rabaul - East Cost of NG - Borneo Rabaul - Palau - PI etc etc To many routes under LBA for him to defend give yourself the platform to exploit his mistake

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 4:46:40 PM)
Hi guys, once again thanks for all your contributions! Just a few notes: Aden, unfortunately, doesn't get any emergency convoy except for the first one when LOD is triggered. So the supplies must be come from Adebadan or from outside when the Med will be open. My subs aren't doing a good job even if i'm dedicating a lot of attentions to them. Rader is slowly garrisoning every 3 AF base with Helens ASW devoted...and these bastards are damaging my subs (even at 5 hexes of distance) everytime they spot them...and they always get spotted! So i'm forced to operate my subs or as a advanced patrol shields or in the usual way but in areas of low interest (mainly between Mariannas and Japan or north of Timor)...i'm now trying to send a 3 subs TF to mine Palembang and the Malacca strait...let's see if i can manage to get there unseen...i took the longer route...finger crossed! Andy...yes, he's forced to bomb me from 18k or higher... Unfortunately i'm running short of DDs (10 left) between Aden and Karachi but i still have some decent toys to play with (CLs, CAs and 2 BBs). Northern Oz is a problem cause the only possible route is via Perth...but Timor has been hugely fortified and i bet lots of Netties are there...i'd need my CVs to advance by sea towards Darwin.... Yes, the idea is to get to New Britain...from there everything will be possible! Nonetheless i still want Tarawa...so that plan won't be put aside...i'll just wait for few more weeks...

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 4:48:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel (accidentally posted this in my own AAR first - it's GJ's fault, or so I claim) Say the truth and tell you simply wanted to augment the numbers of your AAR [:D]

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 4:56:47 PM)
A map of the recent japanese advances [image]local://upfiles/37890/72695BFEEF924479ABF6485915E404F2.jpg[/image]

Canoerebel -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 5:12:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 Hello to all. Now up on my new uber-PC, and back in the forum. I fully support what you say above, CR. My comments re saving supply at Karachi by grounding the 4Es was predicated on a supply blockade. Aden simply gets too many independent supply convoys to supliment its organic suppply (plus LOD freebies) to allow the steady flow into Karahci Rader has allowed. He needed to nail the KB to the map edge and finish the job in India, not leave it to DD raiders. Allowing Forts to go to 9 was also a Bad Move. His whole operational schedule has been pokey, and now, in October, he's too late to reduce Karachi befroe the Med opens up in May 1943 and GJ can marshall any amount of forces, unseen, through Aden, ready to careen down into the IO to commit mass carnage, Inchon-type landings, flow in 50 new, modern fleet subs, etc. Rader has screwed the pooch. Thank goodness the Moose has returned! Where else could we get such eloquence?

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 5:22:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Thank goodness the Moose has returned! Where else could we get such eloquence? And mis-spelling![:)] Still not used to this new clicky keyboard, but I'll get there. Fingers have memory too!

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 5:27:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy Aden, unfortunately, doesn't get any emergency convoy except for the first one when LOD is triggered. So the supplies must be come from Adebadan or from outside when the Med will be open. My subs aren't doing a good job even if i'm dedicating a lot of attentions to them. Rader is slowly garrisoning every 3 AF base with Helens ASW devoted...and these bastards are damaging my subs (even at 5 hexes of distance) everytime they spot them...and they always get spotted! Ooops. I was thinking of CT. After May 1943 Aden is flooded with Ind. Convoys though. Millions of supply. I'd still send a bunch of USN subs to the IO. It's where the targets are. Once your torpedoes "heal" you'll start doing damage. Ignore the air ASW. You'll lose boats, but they'll sink his merchants, and that's what they're for. At minimum you'll very much complicate his operations if he has to escort everything. Make sure you have the right COs in your subs though. Aggressiveness makes a big difference.

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 5:37:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: GreyJoy Aden, unfortunately, doesn't get any emergency convoy except for the first one when LOD is triggered. So the supplies must be come from Adebadan or from outside when the Med will be open. My subs aren't doing a good job even if i'm dedicating a lot of attentions to them. Rader is slowly garrisoning every 3 AF base with Helens ASW devoted...and these bastards are damaging my subs (even at 5 hexes of distance) everytime they spot them...and they always get spotted! Ooops. I was thinking of CT. After May 1943 Aden is flooded with Ind. Convoys though. Millions of supply. I'd still send a bunch of USN subs to the IO. It's where the targets are. Once your torpedoes "heal" you'll start doing damage. Ignore the air ASW. You'll lose boats, but they'll sink his merchants, and that's what they're for. At minimum you'll very much complicate his operations if he has to escort everything. Make sure you have the right COs in your subs though. Aggressiveness makes a big difference. Yes, i'm sending every new arrived sub to the I.O. At the moment i have 20 subs operating in defence of Karachi and 10 more operating from Perth or CT patrolling the waters between Calcutta and Singapore (with 3 of them delivering mines to the Malacca Strait)... I'm really looking forward to get better torps...the last turn, before we put 3 torps into a damaged DD near Karachi, we had 4 "hit but no expl"...[:@]

JohnDillworth -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 6:34:24 PM)
Never mind, wrong forum. (or is it really a gratuitous post to bump GreyJoy's post count higher than Canoe's?)

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 6:46:49 PM)
LOL [:D] Well, October 21,22 1942 Two days of blood. Let's divide it: CENTPAC: The Kb keeps on raiding between Pago Pago, Canton Is. and Christmas. She sunk a small xAKLs TF and a transport TF (empty) composed of 5 xAPs that was returning to Christmas after delivering a base force to Pago Pago... everything is sunk but i do not care much...he keeps on wasting fuel to sink a bunch of replaceble ships... now there's also a SCTF raiding Tf between Canton and Christmas... INDIA: Rader today sent waves of bombers and fighters over Karachi (thunderstorm for both days). 200 Zeros/Tojos on sweep for both days followed by 200 Helens heavily escorted and then by 100 Netties escorted by 100 fighters... Results were very good: we lost 33 planes against his 230!![:D] Again, despite the heavy escort, his bombers were mere victims! Also my Cruisers and Destroyers managed to get away without a single scratch by the attack of the Netties...very good news[;)] A costly turn for Rader...no doubt! Some screeshots to follow.... [image]local://upfiles/37890/D59998ADE57743C383676DAE51507EC2.jpg[/image]

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 6:48:03 PM)
Indian meatgrinder [image]local://upfiles/37890/E575295B99F641C096C40D555EBBD3B3.jpg[/image]

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 6:48:43 PM)
Results [image]local://upfiles/37890/313E1DB340874345BBB33801A3328353.jpg[/image] This is the combat report of the 21 october 1942 for what concerns the air battles over Karachi... Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 48 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 13 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M3 Zero x 32 Allied aircraft Fulmar II x 3 Sea Hurricane Ib x 14 Hurricane IIa Trop x 13 Hurricane IIb Trop x 7 Hurricane IIc Trop x 34 Spitfire VIII x 26 Kittyhawk IA x 2 P-38E Lightning x 5 P-38F Lightning x 19 P-39D Airacobra x 31 P-40E Warhawk x 14 P-40K Warhawk x 31 Japanese aircraft losses A6M3 Zero: 2 destroyed Allied aircraft losses P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed Aircraft Attacking: 3 x A6M3 Zero sweeping at 31000 feet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 45 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 12 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 22 Allied aircraft Fulmar II x 3 Sea Hurricane Ib x 14 Hurricane IIa Trop x 13 Hurricane IIb Trop x 7 Hurricane IIc Trop x 34 Spitfire VIII x 26 Kittyhawk IA x 2 P-38E Lightning x 5 P-38F Lightning x 19 P-39D Airacobra x 29 P-40E Warhawk x 12 P-40K Warhawk x 26 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed Allied aircraft losses P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 231 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 63 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 82 Allied aircraft Fulmar II x 3 Sea Hurricane Ib x 13 Hurricane IIa Trop x 12 Hurricane IIb Trop x 6 Hurricane IIc Trop x 34 Spitfire VIII x 24 Kittyhawk IA x 2 P-38E Lightning x 5 P-38F Lightning x 17 P-39D Airacobra x 26 P-40E Warhawk x 10 P-40K Warhawk x 24 No Japanese losses No Allied losses Aircraft Attacking: 42 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 31000 feet * 28 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 31000 feet * 4 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 31000 feet * -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Karachi , at 40,8 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 175 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 55 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 48 Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 38 Ki-49-IIa Helen x 173 Allied aircraft Fulmar II x 3 Sea Hurricane Ib x 13 Hurricane IIa Trop x 12 Hurricane IIb Trop x 4 Hurricane IIc Trop x 33 Spitfire VIII x 23 Kittyhawk IA x 2 P-38E Lightning x 5 P-38F Lightning x 17 P-39D Airacobra x 22 P-40E Warhawk x 9 P-40K Warhawk x 22 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 4 destroyed Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 3 destroyed Ki-49-IIa Helen: 36 destroyed, 30 damaged Ki-49-IIa Helen: 3 destroyed by flak Allied aircraft losses B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed on ground Airbase hits 3 Runway hits 12 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Karachi at 40,8 Weather in hex: Overcast Raid detected at 109 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 43 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 45 A6M3a Zero x 27 G3M2 Nell x 38 G4M1 Betty x 39 Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 39 Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 34 Allied aircraft Fulmar II x 1 Sea Hurricane Ib x 6 Hurricane IIa Trop x 4 Hurricane IIb Trop x 2 Hurricane IIc Trop x 11 Spitfire VIII x 9 Kittyhawk IA x 1 P-38E Lightning x 3 P-38F Lightning x 6 P-39D Airacobra x 9 P-40E Warhawk x 4 P-40K Warhawk x 9 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 5 destroyed A6M3a Zero: 3 destroyed G3M2 Nell: 6 damaged G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak G4M1 Betty: 4 damaged Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 destroyed Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 4 destroyed Allied aircraft losses Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed Allied Ships CL Java CL Mauritius CL Danae CLAA Van Heemskerck DD Encounter DD Norman DD Scout Aircraft Attacking: 18 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo 10 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo 18 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo 13 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo 10 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 6000 feet Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb 8 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 6:50:26 PM)
position of the KB [image]local://upfiles/37890/8E4C23C5103F446F9323C2BBE09264EA.jpg[/image]

ny59giants -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 7:08:55 PM)
He can afford to lose those huge number of bombers as he has the extra Heavy Industry production from around the Calcutta area to pay for it. I imagine that he is still building up a healthy HI surplus with all these losses. If you don't have a HR preventing it, I would have my P-38s at max altitude.

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 7:17:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants He can afford to lose those huge number of bombers as he has the extra Heavy Industry production from around the Calcutta area to pay for it. I imagine that he is still building up a healthy HI surplus with all these losses. If you don't have a HR preventing it, I would have my P-38s at max altitude. We do have unfortunately. Second best mnvr. alt is the max altitude we can set our fighters. Yes he can efford. However the pilots must be a problem...all those are pilots MIA or KIA...at least i hope so...

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 9:55:16 PM)
And here's the plan for the SOPAC...i'd like to reach those positions by 01.02.1943 [image]local://upfiles/37890/CDDCAA2E3D8748D8AA9E803076A7DE9B.jpg[/image]

PresterJohn001 -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 10:15:05 PM)
I like a planned advance in the Solomons. Also don't fixate on defended bases. There are planty of dot hexes in the region (woodlark island etc) that can be built to repsectable size bases pretty quickly. For a well defended region like this interdict and prevent supply arriving at the bases. Makes it easier to to take when you invade if they are eating grass. Low level bombers murder Japanese transports. No rail, no inherent supply prduction, its all got to be sailed in.

jeffk3510 -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 10:20:16 PM)
I am sure you know, but focus on the islands that can handle the largest airfield....food for thought... oh, and Goodenough Isl, just cus the name is badass.

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 10:34:00 PM)
Yes guys, i will focus on the islands with more potential. At the same time i'd like to remain as flexible as possible in which island to take as target....Rader is already bringing troops and supplies to the theatre (my Cats on the torrent strait keep on seeing ships coming and going)...so for sure once we get to Shortland then things will become difficult...but hey, if he's forced to bring assets here...that means less air and naval assets for India...[;)] If i can manage to estabilish a secure base at PM and Shortland...well then i'll be in a position to decide where and when to strike. If he wants to contest this advance he'll need his Netties and his Zeros...but he needs them in India too...so we're going to force Rader to take a difficult decision...at least that's what i hope! No turns till tomorrow...Busy day for my opponent [:(]... See you tomorrow gents

pws1225 -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 11:33:21 PM)
This is a great AAR. Great job GreyjJoy. You're doing us noobs proud! Regards, Paul

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/27/2011 11:55:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pws1225 This is a great AAR. Great job GreyjJoy. You're doing us noobs proud! Regards, Paul Thanks Paul! Glad you like it [:)] These are my two squadrons equipped with Spitfires... These guys improved so much during the last months of the Karachi defence [image]local://upfiles/37890/4449AE6BBE0B469C99169ADF4C4A513A.jpg[/image]

SoliInvictus202 -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/28/2011 1:13:56 AM)
such pilots will prove invaluable during your time of reconquest!

CaptBeefheart -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/28/2011 7:12:36 AM)
Good to see my old buddy Cooper-Slipper doing well. Cheers, CC

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/28/2011 7:53:32 AM)
Oct 23, 24 1942 Another day of pain and blood over Karachi. The usual 350 fighter sweeps, followed by a wave of 200 Netties escorted by 130 fighters. Results are mixed. 60 planes of mine against his 130...but the Netties got through and sunk the CLs Danae and Mauritius (the latter being really a bad loss). Finally the para-drop at Multan happened. Now Rader has a direct rail line between Jodpur and Multan and i bet he's already moving by rail his troops (they got out of the desert the last turn). We've ordered a massed bombing raid for tomorrow in order to close the Multan AF and to keep it closed as long as possible. Now everything will be decided on how fast his troops can approach Hyderabad... The KB is moving back...she had not sunk anything this turn...lot of fuel burnt for nothing. We keep on reinforcing Tulagi-Lunga-Tessafaronga. Now 100 Wildcats are operating there providing CAP and 35 Dive Bombers are ready to smash anything that dares to come close. Lunga has already reached level 4 AF and already has 1000 AVs. Soon 4Es will be able to be based there. Moving in Air and Naval HQs, along with AAs, and base forces. Lot of naval activity near Rabaul. Now 11 units spotted there...must mean he's finally reinforcing this theatre...hopefully it will be too late for him to contest the Solomons. 5 US bombing squadrons are moving from CT to Oz...soon Oz will have 10 American Bombing groups.

Fishbed -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/28/2011 9:01:16 AM)
35 dive-bombers ain't gonna be "ready to smash anything that dares to come close", but I like your spirit! Keep'on fighting mate [;)]

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/28/2011 9:46:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fishbed 35 dive-bombers ain't gonna be "ready to smash anything that dares to come close", but I like your spirit! Keep'on fighting mate [;)] Well, let's say that 35 dive bombers with very well trained pilots will be enough to stop or at least to interdict the typical "Tokyo Express"...however, if he wants to bombard Lunga, i've placed there 2 Marine CD units and a Naval CD unit...just in case[;)] Strange enough he's not reconning Lunga, nor we've spotted any naval search plane around those skies...Seems that Rader has completely given up the whole Solomons...i think it's a mistake....if he had counterattack during the first days he could have pushed me back...but now, with 3 mutual supporting bases, with more than 1000 AVs there and with 100 marine fighters (with a decent pool of Wildcats in the backyard)...i think my conquests there are safe.

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/28/2011 9:50:46 AM)
Forgot to say that i have 4 squadrons of B-25/B-26 ready at Suva to be transfered to Lunga as soon as the AF becomes big enough. Noumea, Efate and Lungaville keep on growing fast and well. The only real problem remains fuel...i need to make more efforts in this matter in the next weeks.

GreyJoy -> RE: Bloody Skies (6/28/2011 2:35:48 PM)
...i was reading back this AAR when Rader landed in India...wow...seems like a century ago!...however, i was considering the options he had...really think that if he had marched all the way to Dehli and Northern India, landing at the same time at Karachi with the KB in cover...well...there would have been no other options for me rather than a slow and painfull capitulation...at that time i barely have 2500 AVs in the whole India...most of them retreating towards Karachi...with no air cover...no forts to hide beyond...with the KB sitting in front of Karachi forbidding any reinforcement from Aden and with those tank armies ourflanking my poor battered divisions...well it would have been a massacre

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