collectors mitigate fuel need (Full Version)

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darkova -> collectors mitigate fuel need (3/31/2011 9:31:36 PM)

if i have enough energy collecters to meet a stations static energy need will the reactor not consume any fuel?



Bingeling -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/1/2011 7:13:49 AM)

As far as I know, it won't consume fuel.

I seem to remember lots of mining bases and such with no fuel and nice, full energy.



Data -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/1/2011 8:54:39 AM)

It will not, that why they are so useful on everything...even on ships when they're not moving (which tend to do more than you'd imagine)



darkova -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/1/2011 9:34:23 AM)

do the radiation values on stellar bodies have any direct effect on energy collection and if so is there some kind of formula that can calculate it?



Data -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/1/2011 10:09:59 AM)

only solar radiation relates to this and there's no known formula influenced by the % of solar radiation...as long as you're in the aoe they will work; by aoe I mean the star system or nebulae area



ggf31416 -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/1/2011 2:41:49 PM)

Some time ago (1.0.6.0) I derived the formula to something like 

Actual Energy = ((Solar+X-Ray+Microwave)/92.5) * (1 - (Distance to the Star/24K)) * Potential energy

But the formula might have changed and I'm not really sure of the constants.

The result is that on normal stars the energy collectors produce the advertised energy or more, except in the deeps (>20K) of star systems. I think that all planets are closer than 24K from the Star.

Note that most components continue working even if they don't receive enough energy. Weapons, and to a lesser extent Propulsion and Hyperdrives are some of the exceptions.



Omniblivion -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/2/2011 8:10:04 PM)

Greetings- I made an account just to post/verify something I was testing last night:

If you have enough energy collectors on a stationary structure, you only need to have 1 reactor and 1 fuel container, no matter how much energy it draws.  This tactic isn't the best for stations with heavy weaponry, but I have been using it frequently on mining bases, research stations, small trading stations, etc.  This way, the stations themselves will never consume any fuel (especially in my game last night where i only had a 35% fuel planet within 1500km >.<).

Hopefully this helps spark some new ideas, if it hasn't been brought up already :)



Data -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/2/2011 9:17:56 PM)

It has, the energy collectors are the holy grail of fuel efficiency. Nice to see they are so appreciated far and wide. [:)]
Welcome to the community, Omniblivion.



cookie monster -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/2/2011 10:04:42 PM)

I've noticed a resort base with no fuel but the shields were fully powered. I presume this was from the 8 energy collectors and the neutron star.



Data -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/2/2011 10:13:20 PM)

Yap, since the station is static the collectors will kick in. Don't remember but isn't it mandatory to have at least one fuel cell on this design?
Anyway, I vaguely remember seeing stations with no fuell or collectors and the shields were still up.....the relation between shields and power is not yet clear.
I will test this to make sure.



Omniblivion -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/2/2011 10:36:51 PM)

Each stationary structure requires at least 1 reactor and 1 fuel cell; other than that, you can have all collectors :)

This strategy could theoretically work with defensive units as well. 

For instance, the below design should save on early game costs for defensive structures.  (I'm still new, so may not have the best armor/shield/weapon combo, just using the base design as an example).

Purely Defensive Base:
Component Name (Size)
-1 Command Center (2)
-1 Fission Reactor (22)
-1 Standard Fuel Cell (6)
-1 Docking Bay (4)
-5 Energy Collector (40)
-15 Standard Armor (15)
-12 Corvidian Shields (120)
-16 Maxos Blaster (80)
-2 Hab Module (4)
-2 Life Support (2)

Stats (vs. the Default Values)
Total Size: 295  (416)
Purchase Cost: 4087  (4960)
Maintenance Cost: 1266 (1611)
Energy Collection: 120 (144)
Reactor Output: 60 (180)
Fuel Capacity: 60 (240)
Static Usage:6(8)
Excess Energy Output: 54 (172)
Max Weapons Energy per Sec: 155 (155)

This will provide enough static collection to power most of your guns at all times.  In heavy combat situations, the reactor can kick in to supply the additional 41 energy required by max weapon load.  You shouldn't be experiencing too much in the early game that will fully drain the station of fuel (even if it is drained of all fuel, 9 guns will still be functional).  If the defensive unit does run out of fuel in one battle, it is likely dead already anyways :).  Basically, you're saving about 20% on costs and 25% construction time for (arguably) the same amount of defensive value.


(Edit: colors exploded, had to fix the tags :) )



cookie monster -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/2/2011 10:44:47 PM)

You can always place some enemy capitals/cruisers via the editor and see how good they are

I just tested 10 capitals 10 cruisers vs 4 DB's & 1 MSP. The defences did ok. It's abit of a moot point though cos I always station a home fleet.

The area of effect weapons are great but the home colony would be heavily patrolled anyway, so why pay for the upkeep of AoE weapons



Bingeling -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/3/2011 10:32:31 AM)

Always a home fleet? I had a pirate annoy a mining station 2 small jumps from my home system, and noticed I had no military ship in the home cluster at all [:D]

In my current game I have 1 old frigate sitting at a mining base, which is the only ship out of fleets. It is one of the two starting ones. Apart from troop transports put out of fleet and on auto to refuel.

I must admit that no fleet at all in my home cluster is a sign of too much war at too many fronts, though.

It was fun though, having 5 enemies declare war one at a time. In addition to the one i already had. But mostly, shoot up a space port and a couple of mining bases, and they settle for peace without a bribe. Main issue is colonies defecting and joining empires you are not at war with. I need to get quicker to view the colony list when war is declared...




cookie monster -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/3/2011 12:10:24 PM)

Yep always a home fleet, with seperate frigates & escorts automated. I let the AI recommend ship building so I have enough to cover my territory.



Bingeling -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/3/2011 1:01:15 PM)

I start hire auto ships once my empire is large, I have good tech, and pirates start to annoy me. In the hope that something will be close to anywhere. As long as the empire is quite compact, fleets can mop up if they are spread around a bit. Like taking a single cruiser out of a battle fleet and such. Jumping a single pirate escort with a 4000 strength fleet is a bit too much, so single ships can do.



Sarnian -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/6/2011 10:14:29 PM)

I have a construction ship with three collectors which I sent to a distant neutron star to build research labs.

Just as it arrived at its destination it announced that it was short of fuel and started returning to it's planet or origin. When I stopped it, it had approx 50% fuel, presumably gathered from the energy collectors. Despite this, it continually tried to leave the system (presumably to load more fuel it didn't need)?

Is the ship unaware that it no longer needs fuel or am I misunderstanding something? The ship's status clearly shows that it is building a research station at the star, but at this rate, it will never actually succeed!



Kayoz -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 3:40:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarnian

I have a construction ship with three collectors which I sent to a distant neutron star to build research labs.

Just as it arrived at its destination it announced that it was short of fuel and started returning to it's planet or origin. When I stopped it, it had approx 50% fuel, presumably gathered from the energy collectors. Despite this, it continually tried to leave the system (presumably to load more fuel it didn't need)?

Is the ship unaware that it no longer needs fuel or am I misunderstanding something? The ship's status clearly shows that it is building a research station at the star, but at this rate, it will never actually succeed!


I'm not clear as to the order of events.

Did you send the constructor to the star, or did you tell it to build the research station at the star? Those are 2 different events.

In the first case, the ship will try to refuel once it reaches the predefined level. If its fuel level falls below the predefined level, and as you said the location was quite far away - it's entirely possible that it'll bounce back and forth continually - going to the destination, turning around to refuel, returning to the destination, turning around, ad nauseum.

But in the second case, it should proceed to the space port closest to the objective, pick up what supplies it can, then proceed to the objective to build the requested structure. In the second case, you shouldn't see any refeulling happening once it leaves the space port en route to the structure destination.

Note, that collectors - as far as I understand - only work while the ship/station is not moving. As such, moving between locations while in combat (for a ship), they rely on fuel for energy. Bases never move, so theoretically with enough energy collectors, they shouldn't require any fuel to operate.



Data -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 6:21:47 AM)

Collectors also do not produce fuel, they generate energy. So the fuel loss you take from moving still remains and it will still determine the CS to go back for refueling.



cookie monster -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 7:54:47 AM)

I did an experiment

I made two monitoring stations

One at a sun, one in deep space

The one at the sun used energy collectors to power up the shields but fuel level as expected was zero

The one in deep space couldn't power the shields as there's not enough light but the long range scanner worked

It's difficult to have 360 degree home system monitoring stations placed nearby as there is not always a star in the correct location

I like to have early warning stations away from the home system

But then again the games not really been challenging so far...so I will tone down the paranoia.

I also am not gonna build defensive bases at the home world. The advisors love them, I will station a fleet instead.



Bingeling -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 8:31:11 AM)

In my still running Dhayut game, I give them all defensive bases they want. A lot of them. A whole lot...

I worry about the priorities of my advisors, though. They were spamming me about more cloning facilities, new planet each time... Finally I gave in. And spammed the left button to accept a ton of them. A little later, I got access to planetary defenses (the defense bonus thing), and figured it was time for some message spam, so I accepted. Loads of boxes to accept (luckily in the same spot). Then a bit later, a few more. This repeated a few time. And finally, they suggested to build one on the "last" planet. My home world. [&:]

I think I would give that higher priority, especially as just next to it is an alien colony of an empire that just a few minutes later threatened with war...



adecoy95 -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 8:37:05 AM)

its been said before in this thread, but it cant be stressed enough, dont skimp out on reactors/fuel storage if your station has weapons, they will fail to fire at an acceptable speed and then run out of fuel, becoming a sitting no-shield-recharge duck.

and on top of that no civilian ships will go anywhere near a warzone to refuel it



Data -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 8:47:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cookie monster
The one in deep space couldn't power the shields as there's not enough light but the long range scanner worked


Try that one without the energy collectors, you'll find the LRS still works. Somehow, some components will work even without power supply. Energy collectors for sure don't work in deep space without a solar radiation source.



Bingeling -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 8:51:29 AM)

Hm, so you can make really cheap monitoring stations. Just the LRS and whatever is needed to complete the design.

In my current game I spam the AI designed monitoring stations, trying to get cover on every gas cloud in the game. Damn pirates, they are annoying when things calm down.

Pirates sure feels more active in peaceful times. Is this because I pause less, so time flies faster, or is it because they are more active in peaceful times?



cookie monster -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 8:52:22 AM)

I can just imagine the design now

1 reactor,1 LR scanner,1 fuel tank,1 command centre,1 hab module,1 life support, 1 very lonely Sluken!

It's yours sir for 500 credits![:D]



cookie monster -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 8:55:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

Hm, so you can make really cheap monitoring stations. Just the LRS and whatever is needed to complete the design.

In my current game I spam the AI designed monitoring stations, trying to get cover on every gas cloud in the game. Damn pirates, they are annoying when things calm down.

Pirates sure feels more active in peaceful times. Is this because I pause less, so time flies faster, or is it because they are more active in peaceful times?


My pirate hunter ships are cruiser/explorers with an LR scanner. They can take down any pirate base. But struggle 1 on 1 with a pirate cruiser.

They're the biggest exploration ship graphic you will ever see. Plus you can control them from the empire management tab on the left.



Data -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 8:56:05 AM)

I think the latter but never looked closely at this...maybe a balancing thing [:)]



Bingeling -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 9:05:45 AM)

A LRS won't stop bases from being established. I had a stubborn one near the western edge. Repeated trips to kill it. So I parked my fleet in the cloud, and they stopped appearing.

I have two types of fleets, and one strange battle fleet with quite a few destroyers. And an invasion fleet.

Raiders - 4 destroyers
Battle fleets - 8 cruisers, 2 capitals

So when I find a pirate base, or have a pirate attack, I send either the closest raider fleet, or a single ship from a battle fleet. I just make sure the battle fleet leader don't go, as he will bring the rest with him and not return automatically.

Of course, if I worry about a single cruiser doing the job, I could always send two cruisers from the closest battle fleet...

And this is not in the earliest days, 4 destroyers can't safely go unattended to pirate bases until they got some fancy equipment.



cookie monster -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 9:17:14 AM)

Pirates are a pita, now the only reason I will include them in game is for gaining a good reputation, the game gets weird with no pirates and a dubious reputation from forcibly taking over independant colonies.

I won't buy the intel from them, cos then the game is alot easier.



Data -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 9:47:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cookie monster
I won't buy the intel from them, cos then the game is alot easier.


very true...sad but true



Bingeling -> RE: collectors mitigate fuel need (4/7/2011 1:53:42 PM)

Pirates are a nice touch, but...

They are a pita when you try to pass the time to see if some refugees will appear. This is not a problem until you are huge and dominant.
They are destroying the game by giving too high reputation boost.

I end reducing my power various ways... This game it has been not stealing a single operations map, and not placing a single deep cover agent. Just to steal some maps. I am so incredibly nasty when I got a deep cover agent, I waste all bases I can find. And I can find a lot when I can see all :-)



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