Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (Full Version)

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beppi -> Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (4/7/2011 7:53:41 PM)

There seems to be a serious upgrade bug for 1108k6 Beta patch. If infantry squads are upgraded the old squads are moved back to the pool and do not auto upgrade. So no more upgrade possible.

Upgraded some units with US Inf Squads and US Inf 42 Squads. Result was all US 43 Squads gone and pool for the other types increased. Should not be that way. (Ingame numbers are identical to tracker numbers.)

It seems that the new code which allows upgrade of squads which are older than the last upgrade does not upgrade the squad to the last version and instantaneously empties the pool.



[image]local://upfiles/11305/08C04ECC12374659870EB88064529A1B.jpg[/image]



michaelm75au -> RE: Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (4/8/2011 3:01:43 AM)

Please attach a save where the LCU upgrades and shows the  problem.

The pools themselves don't upgrade. Never have.
The pool of 100 x Inf 41 don't suddenly become a pool of 100 x Inf 42. They are separate pools.
Eventually you can end up with pools of obsolete devices.

Only the devices in the LCUs upgrade.

Actually, now I think of it there was a 'bug' fixed in 1108e where the wrong device was being added back to the pool upon LCU device upgrade. Instead of adding 100 old devices back, it was adding 100 of the upgraded device back to the pool.
In other words, it took 100 units of the new device out of the pool to upgrade the LCU, and them added back 100 units as the new upgraded device. So upgrading had no net effect on the upgraded device pool.

Re-examing the code, it is split into 2 parts - one for squads/eng and one for the rest.
The squad code probably should add the devices back as new ones since Japanese squads are returned to the Manpower pool rather than the device pool - the Japan production can use the MP to build new squads of the upgraded type.

The drawback for adding upgraded devices as new is that they are immediately available to upgrade another unit on the next turn. You wind up with a domino effect. It would be nice if these devices returning to the pool could be 'delayed' like planes can.



michaelm75au -> RE: Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (4/8/2011 3:27:54 AM)

As an aside, when a LCU's TOE upgrades, the old devices are just added straight back into the pool for Allied, and to the various resource pools for the Japanese.
There is no process to upgrade the old devices in the pool (like some sort of re-equip cycle).



erstad -> RE: Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (4/8/2011 5:01:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

As an aside, when a LCU's TOE upgrades, the old devices are just added straight back into the pool for Allied, and to the various resource pools for the Japanese.
There is no process to upgrade the old devices in the pool (like some sort of re-equip cycle).



Michael, I believe the OP is correct in describing the historical behavior for upgraded *squads*. This is what I have observed (as Allies), and is also documented in section 8.11 of the manual.

Additionally, Andy Mac has posted on this multiple times, I believe. In a quick search I found this one
quote:

You should really wait until you have upgraded all squads to AIF 42 as thats an important upgrade before you start spending AIF 42 squads on rebuilding.

e.g. wait until you have 108 AIF 42 Squads (about 2 months) and then let them percolate through all your units performing this vital upgrade


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2243890&mpage=1&key=�
I added the emphasis to percolate,by which he means one unit will upgrade, return squads which upgrade before being replaced in the pool (per 8.11), which then allows the next unit to be upgraded, etc.

I could look for more explicit posts but it would be easier just to check with him on the intent. But I'm quite confident that when I've seen upgrades as allied that the squads are returned to the pool as the upgraded version. (not saying it doesn't happen as Japan, just haven't paid as much attention)

quote:

The drawback for adding upgraded devices as new is that they are immediately available to upgrade another unit on the next turn. You wind up with a domino effect.

Whether this is a drawback or not is open for debate but it is definitely the previous behavior and your "domino" is Andy's "percolate".

This would have a significant impact if changed. most of the allied replacement rates are low enough that units would be fighting with older squads (including some of the militia) for an extended period, in some cases perhaps the full war.

And, not to flog the dead horse, but it is exactly what the manual describes in section 8.11.

thanks for all you do!





michaelm75au -> RE: Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (4/8/2011 6:06:31 AM)

I see that in manual. But it wasn't clear why it was so in the code.
The 'bug' existed for the non-squad devices so I though that it applied to both sections of the code.

I've corrected the squad code to use the upgraded device when puting back into the pool as it was.

See, even I can't remember the contents of manual. And don't check it when I should.[:-]



witpqs -> RE: Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (4/8/2011 6:11:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

See, even I can't remember the contents of manual. And don't check it when I should.[:-]



That don't matter because you are open minded and you communicate. [&o] [8D]



PaxMondo -> RE: Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (4/8/2011 6:30:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

See, even I can't remember the contents of manual. And don't check it when I should.[:-]



That don't matter because you are open minded and you communicate. [&o] [8D]

+1

[sm=00000436.gif]

Schooners!



beppi -> RE: Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (4/8/2011 10:47:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I see that in manual. But it wasn't clear why it was so in the code.
The 'bug' existed for the non-squad devices so I though that it applied to both sections of the code.

I've corrected the squad code to use the upgraded device when puting back into the pool as it was.

See, even I can't remember the contents of manual. And don't check it when I should.[:-]



Thank you for fixing the "bug", and both ideas are tempting (squads -> no autoupgrade and back to the pool, upgrade -> with a delay) but the problem is that the replacement numbers for the allies are balanced around the idea that there is no delay and you always get the latest squad type back to the pool. Especially types with very low numbers (Ind 42, Brit 43, Brit 44, Aus 44) are balanced around the currently existing logic and it kills ongoing games if you change that logic.

Would it be possible to trigger that different logic (delay and back to the pool) with an editor parameter cause it could be possible to build some interesting scenarios with that logic. (You could seriously slow down the allied ground offensive in 44/45 for example)



michaelm75au -> RE: Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (4/8/2011 11:41:11 AM)

Adding editor parameters would out of scope for just maintaining the game as is.
Might be something to consider for a 'enhancement'.[;)]



witpqs -> RE: Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (4/8/2011 5:53:35 PM)

Yeah, in the scenarios the squad replacements are balanced (and stingy!) on the pivot point of "immediate upgrade" or whatever you what to call it. Changing that would require adjusting all the scenarios and mods.



crsutton -> RE: Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (4/9/2011 3:24:19 PM)

Don't know if it is related or just due to a big upgrade of my base units but my pool of 43 US infantry squads went from about 350 to 43 with the last patch or so.



michaelm75au -> RE: Serious Squad upgrade bug 1108k6 (4/9/2011 3:39:03 PM)

The 'bug'. You probably have a large number of 42 US Inf device. They should have been upgraded and added to 43 US Inf devices.



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