Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (Full Version)

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DakaSha -> Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 12:37:57 AM)

I played the past game but decided to wait for this one (since it had already been announced) before purchasing.
Now I got this and in the short time i have played it Ive noticed two things:

1. It's very enjoyable
2. It really isn't any different from the first..

I would say im glad I bought it but I think i would be quite unhappy if i already owned the first.. Even with the 15 dollar reduction. It feels like a nice sized patch. Nothing else.

So I pop open the (virtual...) manual and read that there hasnt been any update to the AI.. Now since its the first one i bought it isnt a huge deal.. But objectively that is terrible.

If the manual stated something about bettering the AI in future (FREE) patches then yay.. however it blatantly states that that is reserved for a future game..

So another 35/50 bucks for an *actual* sequel.

Can we please not be expected to pay for *patches*. I already had promised myself I wouldnt buy another game from this publisher after I witnessed how the company operates.. I thought maybe I was mistaken. Seems not.

My cd will prob be a cheap golden bottomed one and without a printed manual correct?
Well at least the game is fun and one isnt forced to buy them :-/



Maddoc06 -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 1:26:38 AM)

I bought, played and modded the previous AT: WWII

I liked the concept, the units, the moddability but felt that it could be improved which appears to have taken place.

I really hated the relatively small sized maps, small number of cities and the unbearably slow game speed.

From the posts AT : Gold appears to be what it is said to be - a vastly improved AT : WWII with lots of our previous suggestions incorporated into it.

Having said all that, AT:Gold appears to be a significant "patch" to make a game with enormous potential more playable.

I have avoided buying this game because I've already paid a significant sum for the underdone AT:WWII.
Though I don't mind paying for a patch if it helps the development substantially, I am concerned that the discount is not significant enough for a patch and I'm unsure the glaring problem with map size and speed has been fixed.



henri51 -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 1:54:19 AM)

Although I have not played enough to be sure, if I understand the manual, the AI speed has been increased by 100%. My understanding about the manual comments to the effect that the AI has not been significantly improved, Vic was speaking of AI 'smarts', but that it has been improved in other respects. In my random game today, it may be pure chance, but I was mightily impressed when the AI proceeded to attempt to encircle my forces, instead of hammering them (described in an AAR thread).

Henri



Tac2i -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 1:58:40 AM)

The AI speed is vastly improved. In the old AT it was, as you say, almost unbearable for large scenarios.

Re map sizes: below are the standard sizes. Using the editor you can make even larger ones.

Matter of opinion I suppose but this is definitely not a patch. For owners of the original game, $25 is almost a steal to get ATG.

Small: 41x21
Medium: 61x31
Large: 71x41
X-Large: 91x61
XX-Large: 131x91
Unplayably Large: 171x121

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maddoc06

I am concerned that the discount is not significant enough for a patch and I'm unsure the glaring problem with map size and speed has been fixed.




Erik Rutins -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 2:09:51 AM)

Vic will no doubt chime in, but in my own experience while testing ATG, I felt the AI was significantly better than in the original Advanced Tactics: WW2. It's also faster and you get to watch it move and fight on the map while it does its turn.

AT Gold is definitely much more than an update, but it's more like a good expansion than a full sequel. Hence the discount for owners of the original, but IMHO it is well worth the upgrade and makes AT with all its existing content much more enjoyable to play.

Regards,

- Erik



Maddoc06 -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 3:18:22 AM)

It is a definite improvement to be able to watch AI turns.
Something we all wanted very much in AT : WWII

I won't call it a patch any more, I'll call it an 'upgrade' as you suggest.



82ndtrooper -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 6:35:36 AM)

I am a beta tester for AT: gold.

I can tell you that the AI is much improved over original AT.  Its up to 50 times faster for one thing.  It also is much much better overall due to the maps generated by the new engine.
The problem in AT wasnt that the AI was bad it was that on most maps it just couldnt cope with the map layout. hence why you had a option to optimize the maps for AI play. but this still didnt help a lot, but every once in a while it would hit on a good map and could be very tough.

in AT gold its the opposite, on most maps now it can do very well and only rarely does it hit a map that dosnt work well with the AI.

I have been beaten by it several times testing random games on just the lowest ai setting, but i always play on a large map with multiple ai's. Turns that took me 30 mins on large maps on AT now take 3-5 mins on ATG. and I only lost 1 game to the AI on AT.

so while the AI itself may not have been tweaked a lot the rest of the game has and that has greatly affected the performance of the AI.



Maddoc06 -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 7:26:26 AM)

That is very useful information 82ndtrooper

I suppose the more people involved in its development and testing the better it will be. I really appreciate the description of your experience. In particular, I'm also the sort of gamer who plays on large maps with multiple AIs.



DakaSha -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 7:50:39 AM)

I am very impressed by the AI dont get me wrong. One thing that impresses me is its (apparent) ability to declare war when i really am not in a position to fight it off. Maybe the handbook is misleading? It really does a good job at making it seem like nothing has been improved :P
The game in general is amazing. (Barring some things i really think should exist :-/.. Mostly game setup and interface related)

I just feel it's overpriced i suppose and should have been sold as an expansion. My previous purchases from matrix are probably more of the reason for my rant then this game actually so dont feel to 'attacked' devs

There are some other things though.. I remember on the community site something about leaders being introduced.. It didnt happen i guess.

Also I cant really compare the AI with the old game in terms of how well it does but some things are bothering me (at least in the early game.. i have been starting over due to different reasons) One of the things that bothers me is its apparent disinterest in armor.. I havnt seen a single tank yet in the first (game) year of playing.

Is this just in the early game? Does the AI use everything in large enough numbers? (besides carriers and paratroopers which the manual admits its incapable of using).
From my initial games light tanks seem to be extremely good against infantry and I'm kinda worried about it not using them.

Do AI's build factories? On some maps the AI could really use some naval bases due to it not having coastal cities.




Vic -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 10:06:34 AM)

Hi all,

http://www.vrdesigns.nl/atwiki/doku.php?id=artificial_intelligence

due to the fact of a number of small changes and optimizations it does feel like the AI is a bit better.

best regards,
Vic



RViener -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 4:47:21 PM)

Vic, Just another reason not to buy until after release has been out for a while. Does the AI produce planes, ships etc in random games?
Bob



Barthheart -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 4:54:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RViener

Vic, Just another reason not to buy until after release has been out for a while. Does the AI produce planes, ships etc in random games?
Bob


Yes it produces all these items.



papajack -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/14/2011 5:05:26 PM)

I for one 100 % disagree , there are so many improvement over AT WW2 that I dont mind paying full price for it

and I am not only paying for this upgrade  but in support of VR Designs so that more wonderful games can be develop [:)]





DakaSha -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/15/2011 1:21:32 AM)

second year... ai builds no armor, only one ship, barely anything but infantry.. loads and loads of infantry.. I hope this changes because it's kinda destroying the atmosphere.
Does the AI start building other stuff at a certain point? when it has a certain number of cities or something?



Barthheart -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/15/2011 2:26:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DakaSha

second year... ai builds no armor, only one ship, barely anything but infantry.. loads and loads of infantry.. I hope this changes because it's kinda destroying the atmosphere.
Does the AI start building other stuff at a certain point? when it has a certain number of cities or something?


It takes ore to build tanks and others vehicles. Maybe your opponent doesn't have enough ore.... just one thought..... hard to guess what's going on without seeing what you're seeing.



DakaSha -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/15/2011 2:51:10 AM)

Hmm the opponents all should have had plenty of ore. All ore mines were upgraded. I started a new game in which we all have more cities and the AI is level '+'. I have seen 2 tanks so far. Barring a fluke im guessing it is dependent on overall production capability.. Kinda makes sense but it would have def been possible to have tanks in the other game



Tac2i -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/15/2011 2:54:12 PM)

Are you playing random games with the 1 Town Start option enabled? In every standard random game I play tested against the AI, the AI had armored cars early on and not to long after light tanks, artillery and aircraft. I've even seen in the the later stages of a game the AI using mobile assault guns and tank destroyers. The AI also upgrades through research, including its resources hexes. It surprises me to hear that you aren't seeing a similar AI behavior in your games.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DakaSha

Hmm the opponents all should have had plenty of ore. All ore mines were upgraded. I started a new game in which we all have more cities and the AI is level '+'. I have seen 2 tanks so far. Barring a fluke im guessing it is dependent on overall production capability.. Kinda makes sense but it would have def been possible to have tanks in the other game




Erik Rutins -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/15/2011 4:45:26 PM)

I'm seeing the same thing as Webizen. Perhaps a difference in settings or just a matter of time?



DakaSha -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/16/2011 12:21:46 AM)

I see armored cars now and then. But only extremely few light tanks and no other tanks.
But I haven't played for over 1 1/2 years game time. I guess its a time thing? :-/

edit: I was taking a look at the AI settings in the editor (and wow are there a lot). It *may* also be that the AI has been mostly on defense in my games which would explain fewer tanks due to the defense goal meant to build fewer

When i play on '+' I seem to see a few more (AI might feel more confident due to larger numbers?). This leads to my next thread :P



Vic -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/16/2011 1:02:36 PM)

When playing single city start all regimes start at war with eachother. I will change this in the first patch to everybody starting at peace with eachother.

this will also influence AI building since each AI is feeling overwhelmed with enemies and will tend to focus on building infantry (for defensive purposes)

best regards,
Vic



Strategiusz -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/17/2011 1:43:12 PM)

Does the AI is faster on single core CPU too?



Tac2i -> RE: Uhm.. No AI upgrades from past game? (4/17/2011 2:21:54 PM)

Yes, it is very much faster.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Madlok

Does the AI is faster on single core CPU too?



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