Mutual Defence : broken ? (Full Version)

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ThierryBis -> Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/18/2011 4:50:53 PM)

Hi !

Playing as Securan I accepted a defense pact from a human empire with whom I had a long good relationship.
Just a few moments after, they started picking my colonies, one after the other... with a relation score that kept rising !
Nice :(

Is this supposed to happen or is it a huge bug ? If a defence partner can backstab you, it should give them a huge reputation hit and gives you some 'war' casus belli at once



Cvan -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/18/2011 6:16:19 PM)

Yea they suffer from Romulan syndrome aka low loyalty. They get jealous of your awesome empire and then they behave like spoiled kids. Hypocritical bastards! Happened to me few times. You should consider about checking if you have some of your bases in their systems, apparently they don't like it.



cookie monster -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/18/2011 6:38:09 PM)

This bug was supposed to have been fixed in the latest DWROTS patch.

Join in on the new tech support thread discussing the very same issue here

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2786608



Cvan -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/19/2011 3:27:36 PM)

I asked few weeks ago. I was told it wasn't really a bug.



Kayoz -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/19/2011 5:55:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cvan

I asked few weeks ago. I was told it wasn't really a bug.


It isn't? Sounds like a bug. Can you provide a link to the thread where you were told it wasn't a bug?



Cvan -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/19/2011 6:39:04 PM)

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2752074

Maybe I understood it wrong?



Kayoz -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/19/2011 6:56:19 PM)

I think the question remains of what happened before the attacks started. As Data proposed, AoE weapons in your case may have triggered their attacks.

However, it sounds from ThierryBis' post, that the attacks are happening without any provocation - indicated by the rising relationship score - and they're more serious, in that it's not just pot-shots at ships, but colony invasions.

The root of the problem is probably the same, however - AI behaviour inconsistent with your relationship score. If it's AoE weapons, then one should see decreasing relationship scores, imo. As well, invasions of colonies should result in a declaration of war rather than increasing relationship score and a maintenance of the MD pact. Since neither is being seen by either of you - I'd surmise that it's a bug.

Should be bumped in the tech support forum as a bug that was "reported as fixed but not fixed". However, ThierryBis doesn't indicate his DW version, so he may very well be using an out of date file.



cookie monster -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/19/2011 7:20:50 PM)

All of the suggestions why you were attacked are valid in the other thread. However the MDP should make sure no attacks are made. I presume that's what the patch addressed. If it's still happening on the newest patch then bug report it.



Kayoz -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/19/2011 7:47:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

All of the suggestions why you were attacked are valid in the other thread. However the MDP should make sure no attacks are made. I presume that's what the patch addressed. If it's still happening on the newest patch then bug report it.


Like I said - we need more info. Description of the events preceding the attacks, version of DW, confirmation of MD pact still in effect while attacks ongoing. If these are confirmed, then it sounds like the bug still exists - but we can't do more than guess without further information.



Data -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/19/2011 7:52:26 PM)

We can upload a saved game to the ftp server, Elliot can check the code directly.



Simulation01 -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/20/2011 12:16:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cvan

I asked few weeks ago. I was told it wasn't really a bug.



lmao

"It's not a bug...it's a feature..."

I saw that on a tech support forum and your post made me think of it. [:)]



Kayoz -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/20/2011 2:08:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulation01

lmao

"It's not a bug...it's a feature..."

I saw that on a tech support forum and your post made me think of it. [:)]


To be fair, none of the WAD speculation in this has been posted by anyone from Matrix. In most cases, once Elliot has enough information to identify the bug, he's been quick to announce a fix, or at least that one is in the works. Compare this to the forum responses for the Total War series, where the forum moderators routinely disparage any complaints as "as designed" or try to redefine the definition of "bug" to something so nebulous that anything short of a blue screen isn't a defect. Elliot's response has been quite refreshing in comparison. I hope the "feature not a bug" isn't something you've seen here, posted by anyone with a Matrix avatar.

The biggest help anyone posting a bug can give is a save game that reproduces the issue. Barring that, a detailed description of the bug so he can narrow his code inspection. Factors like race v race, government types and events leading up to the issue can give him a lot of help in identifying the bug. However, this isn't always provided - it's quite common that people fail to even indicate what version they're running. How is he to identify the issue, if he doesn't even know what pin to compare it to?



Simulation01 -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/20/2011 2:44:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulation01

lmao

"It's not a bug...it's a feature..."

I saw that on a tech support forum and your post made me think of it. [:)]


To be fair, none of the WAD speculation in this has been posted by anyone from Matrix. In most cases, once Elliot has enough information to identify the bug, he's been quick to announce a fix, or at least that one is in the works. Compare this to the forum responses for the Total War series, where the forum moderators routinely disparage any complaints as "as designed" or try to redefine the definition of "bug" to something so nebulous that anything short of a blue screen isn't a defect. Elliot's response has been quite refreshing in comparison. I hope the "feature not a bug" isn't something you've seen here, posted by anyone with a Matrix avatar.

The biggest help anyone posting a bug can give is a save game that reproduces the issue. Barring that, a detailed description of the bug so he can narrow his code inspection. Factors like race v race, government types and events leading up to the issue can give him a lot of help in identifying the bug. However, this isn't always provided - it's quite common that people fail to even indicate what version they're running. How is he to identify the issue, if he doesn't even know what pin to compare it to?




No, CodeForce is not Microsoft. Codeforce does indeed seem to acknowledge issues and attempt to deal with them.



cookie monster -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/20/2011 7:05:55 AM)

I have just had my long standing MDP Ally invade a colony of mine in ROTS 1.05.08.

I've created a tech support thread here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2788219&mpage=1&key=�

I also cross referenced this thread.

BTW as a quick workaround until it gets patched away...You can always change the colony ownership back to yours with the EVIL editor!



ollobrains -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/20/2011 8:07:08 AM)

EVIL editor seems to be the best way currently



Data -> RE: Mutual Defence : broken ? (4/20/2011 8:49:29 AM)

it's not evil when you use it to balance things out and correct some other stuff, or to make the AI harder etc etc
i like that aspect of the dark force [:)]



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