Gibraltar and Denmark (Full Version)

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Repo Man -> Gibraltar and Denmark (9/26/2002 1:34:55 AM)

Here are two questions which always perplexed me about EiA.

First is Gibraltar. All WWII games do not allow enemy ships to pass by this chokepoint, yet in EiA, it is little more than a southern base for England. Was this rule ever modified, or was passage through the straights of Gibraltar that easy circa 1800? Seems to me that at the very least, any ships stationed in Gibraltar should have a pretty good chance of intercepting an enemy fleet attempting to pass through.

Second question is about the straights of Denmark. Under the game, these straights could be blocked by one fleet parked at sea. Common English strategy always seemed to be to park one fleet with one single ship in it to block land movement, and then capture Denmark, acquiring her rather significant fleet. Does anyone else find this to be a “weenie” maneuver, exploiting more of a rule wording rather than a simulation of reality? And just how many ships would be needed to block all land movement over the straights.



ABP -> Gibraltar and Denmark (9/26/2002 4:27:23 AM)

I shall not claim to be an expert on the subject, but:
Gibraltar: Although this has a dominating position in the area it does not "close" the strait. The cannon at the time where not as powerful as those in WWII and Gibraltar is only on one side of the strait. One could argues that ships could pass outside the reach of the cannon. As to the ability of ships to intercept it maybe could be made as an automatic intercept. I don't think it should be possible to close the strait as Bosporus.
Denmark: Denmark did earlier in the history command both sides of the Sound and could close that with cannon on both sides (and we misused that possibility greatly). However during the Napoleonic war the east side of the Sound was lost to Sweden.
It could here also be considered to have automatic interception. However there are three ways to pass the area and it was difficult to close the straits completely to enemy ships. One fleet should at least not be able to do so. Maybe it should even be required to have three fleets stationed to stop fleets passing.



eg0master -> (9/27/2002 10:21:06 PM)

the Gibraltar explanation is even inthe EiA rulebook I think... or at least in some official FAQ/Errata.

On the Denmark subject I don't see it as "exploatation of rule" since if brittain have only one factor in its fleet, the danish fleet may exit port and stop the blockade.



Repo Man -> (9/27/2002 10:38:58 PM)

Thanks for the heads up on Gibraltar. I never noticed it in the rules. Are you sure it was in the rules or some later follow up article in the General? My rules are pretty worn due to over reading.

Regarding Denmark, in real life the British sunk the Danish fleet to prevent the French from using it. In game, that almost never happens.

Its been ages since I've played, but as best as I can recall, the British move a large fleet into the straights. On the next turn, they invade. The Danish fleet can try to run, but they almost always lose. Once the Brits invade and hold, the Danish Fleet is theirs. The French can't intervene as any Fleet counter can block movement.

The true weenie part comes in in holding Denmark. Once the British have the Danish Fleet and fleet counter, they simply leave a 1 ship fleet to stop all movement over the straights.



Le Tondu -> (9/30/2002 5:49:37 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Repo Man
[B]Regarding Denmark, in real life the British sunk the Danish fleet to prevent the French from using it. In game, that almost never happens.[/B][/QUOTE]

Didn't the Brits sink the Dutch fleet while it was at anchor in some harbor? Any player (worth his salt) who controls the Dutch fleet would NEVER allow that to happen again (if he could.)



eg0master -> (10/1/2002 2:52:27 AM)

I can't find it in the rules either, and I do not recall where I have read the explanation before. I'm only sure I've read the gibraltar explanation somewhere...



Boralinoi -> (10/2/2002 1:30:00 AM)

Interesting... you say that the Danish fleet never gets sunk by the Brits in game as happened in reality, but I think I've played in maybe two games where that DIDN'T happen. A good British player will usually sink every minor fleet he can, even if it is possible that he might control it.

Heck, I even knew a British player once (smart guy) who gained control of Denmark and SCUTTLED the Danish fleet despite the VP loss, just to be sure that no one else would EVER get it. He did the same to the Portuguese and Naples fleets. This ensured that he would always have the largest navy, since no major power could take his own fleets away, and now no major power can get a large minor fleet to use either.



bclund -> Concerning Denmark (10/10/2002 8:05:47 PM)

I just have a few remarks concerning some misunderstandings about the Danish situation.

The guns at the time were not able to cover the Danish straits, except perhaps Lillebælt (between peninsula and center island). The english fleet that attacked Copenhagen in 1801 did fear the Danish castle Kronborg, but the guns from the castle and a gun position on the other side (Sweden was a Danish ally in this conflict) was not able to hit the English fleet that kept in the middle of the sound. Storebælt (between center island and Copenhagen) is far larger than the sound between Denmark and Sweden. Britain actually controlled the Danish straits from 1807 and through the Napoleonic wars.

Also, Denmark did not loose control of southern Sweden during the Napoleonic wars, it happened in 1658.

Britain did not destroy the Danish fleet in 1807, they stole it. And kept it after the Napoleonic wars was over. BTW. To any Brits reading this, Denmark would like the fleet back soon:D



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