Partisan management and fortified zones (Full Version)

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kevini1000 -> Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 4:36:11 PM)

I was think of using fortified zones to suppliment my rear area garrisons. I know this uses up AP, some equipment and supplies. However I want to free up as many other types of units as possible for front line action. Also I was to slow partisans as much as possible. I was just wondering if many people use the fortified zones for this purpose or is this just a waiste or are they simply not needed for that reason.

Thanks

Sath



sillyflower -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 4:40:50 PM)

I think they only have about 1000 men max so aren't much use. Breaking down security divs is much more efficient, as is max use of allies where you can.

FZs also use a lot of artillery which you may prefer to have in front line units



heliodorus04 -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 4:51:11 PM)

For the Axis, fortified zones are rarely a good idea, and when they ARE a good idea, it is mostly to dig in a fort in a rear area that's soon-to-be a forward area.

The manpower they use up, and especially the artillery they use up, is far better allocated to front-line unit TOE.

I break down the occasional German division and use regiments to hold a few small cities.  Mostly I use broken down Security divisions (sometimes it takes 2 of the 3 regiments but that frees up one more regiment for someplace else).  I use any Romanian or Italian infantry to garrison stuff in the south.  And the Hungarians provide some SEC units of their own toward the time the mud hits in 1941, and these too are useful.




kevini1000 -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 6:14:36 PM)

I see the point you all are making and agree. On the other hand what if it was done just on a temperary basis then the fortified zone are disbanded later on. All the stuff from the fortified zones would flow back into the replacement pools until the garrison situation could be organized properly so to speak. Then you would only loose the AP points to do all this plus the artillery and men for a short while.

Oh yeah how soon should the security corp HQ's be disbanded? I see most people disband these guys eventually.

Thanks again

Sath



morvael -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 7:29:00 PM)

It's a bit annoying (actually the whole partisan system is just micromanagement hell) that SEC regiment is enough to control most small cities with 100% coverage, but once several of its elements become damaged this drops to 99% and in place of nice blue highlight I get annoying yellow. How do you counter this? Using 2 regiments is overkill, I started to build forts in such cities. Maybe keeping SEC unit on refill mode would be enough? How do you deal with that? It would be great if the regiments would offer around 110% coverage so that would not drop below 100 with 98% of strength remaining...



cookie monster -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 7:41:09 PM)

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2770399



Klydon -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 7:41:43 PM)

Well, most Rumanian and Italian units and "front line action" don't belong in the same line. They just don't hold up. Use them for garrison and rear area security (like protecting against invasions).

The other issue with using FZ's is they are fixed; not mobile at all and your rear area security needs to be free to go chase partisan battalions all over the country side.



hfarrish -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 7:59:29 PM)

As the retreating Germans in 43, my army can barely survive without a fortified line to fall back on...I'm not sure how you would manage without one (unless you make a grand retreat in mid-43 back into Poland to give yourself time to dig in). I assume that the forts sucked up some manpower that would have gone to the front (I created a line from the Baltic and then from Pskov to Vyzama and then down the Dnepr...so a lot of forts). My manpower during this period grew significantly, so other than sucking up some mortars I'm not sure how this really impacted the front. The mechanics of getting troops into the front line are still pretty unclear to me - by fall of 43 my front line strength is down to 2.6M and falling, but my manpower pool has grown during the period and now simply holds steady at about 850k (with armaments holding steady at 30k). I guess my point is I'm not sure whether FZs actually take troops from the field or are just another draw on manpower/armaments.

Still looking for someone who has played the 42 or 43 GC as a PBEM and (without winning or seriously mauling the Soviets in 42) actually been able to delay the Soviet steamroller significantly longer than historical...




Aussiematto -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 9:29:18 PM)

Partisan management is getting tougher now in 1.04 (good, though annoying for me midway through several games as the Axis). Broken rail lines not only can screw up supply but also rail repair. Some tips:

1) security divisions into regiments (as many have suggested).

2) Hungarian and, later, Rumanian Security divisions, plus the Slovak one, into the larger cities (light-urban) since they have more men.

3) bite the bullet. 1 or 2 divisions (such as the static divisions which arrive late in 1941 summer) broken into regiments.

4) in winter, if you have panzers in cities, have a security regiment adjacent to move in, if you ahve to move your armour.

You will need to move units out of the cities to chase the partisans. I am seriously thinking of having some cav units or a motorised brigade or somethiing between cities (where they can cover places the city troops cant) which can chase them without then giving up city control. Could also be in a city, though sometimes terrain is wrong.



kevini1000 -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 10:11:36 PM)

So if you see a partisan unit you actually have to go get so to speak. :(




Speedysteve -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 10:18:59 PM)

You sure do and why wouldn't you want to? Once the little blightets have enough strength to show on the radar you want to take them down.

Some good ideas by majeloz



Garth Vader -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 10:29:26 PM)

In most cases it's fine at 90+%. There is a formula in the manual for partisan creation. Which (from memory) is (rounded down) (1-garrison%) * population.

So at 95% you'd have to get 1 to create partisans so the city size would have to be 20. (1-0.95) * 20 = 1.

At least that's how I understood it from the manual.

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

It's a bit annoying (actually the whole partisan system is just micromanagement hell) that SEC regiment is enough to control most small cities with 100% coverage, but once several of its elements become damaged this drops to 99% and in place of nice blue highlight I get annoying yellow. How do you counter this? Using 2 regiments is overkill, I started to build forts in such cities. Maybe keeping SEC unit on refill mode would be enough? How do you deal with that? It would be great if the regiments would offer around 110% coverage so that would not drop below 100 with 98% of strength remaining...




Mynok -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 11:08:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: majeloz

Partisan management is getting tougher now in 1.04 (good, though annoying for me midway through several games as the Axis). Broken rail lines not only can screw up supply but also rail repair. Some tips:

1) security divisions into regiments (as many have suggested).

2) Hungarian and, later, Rumanian Security divisions, plus the Slovak one, into the larger cities (light-urban) since they have more men.

3) bite the bullet. 1 or 2 divisions (such as the static divisions which arrive late in 1941 summer) broken into regiments.

4) in winter, if you have panzers in cities, have a security regiment adjacent to move in, if you ahve to move your armour.

You will need to move units out of the cities to chase the partisans. I am seriously thinking of having some cav units or a motorised brigade or somethiing between cities (where they can cover places the city troops cant) which can chase them without then giving up city control. Could also be in a city, though sometimes terrain is wrong.



Cav works well in the middle of the marshes which usually seem to have the worst partisan activity. Otherwise, SEC rgts hop the train, knock them out, and hop on back.



Klydon -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/26/2011 11:10:50 PM)

Yeah, I agree on some of the "lesser" troops to be used. The SS cav brigade is likely to be one of my main "partisan chasers", especially in swampy terrain. 



Joel Billings -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/27/2011 12:47:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish

As the retreating Germans in 43, my army can barely survive without a fortified line to fall back on...I'm not sure how you would manage without one (unless you make a grand retreat in mid-43 back into Poland to give yourself time to dig in). I assume that the forts sucked up some manpower that would have gone to the front (I created a line from the Baltic and then from Pskov to Vyzama and then down the Dnepr...so a lot of forts). My manpower during this period grew significantly, so other than sucking up some mortars I'm not sure how this really impacted the front. The mechanics of getting troops into the front line are still pretty unclear to me - by fall of 43 my front line strength is down to 2.6M and falling, but my manpower pool has grown during the period and now simply holds steady at about 850k (with armaments holding steady at 30k). I guess my point is I'm not sure whether FZs actually take troops from the field or are just another draw on manpower/armaments.

Still looking for someone who has played the 42 or 43 GC as a PBEM and (without winning or seriously mauling the Soviets in 42) actually been able to delay the Soviet steamroller significantly longer than historical...




Was this in 1.03? You are seriously armaments deprived and that's why your manpower is stacking up in the pool and not getting to the front. Changes in 1.04 should have eased the armaments load. Also, there was a major change in the 43 campaign in 1.04 that removed 1 million men and millions of armaments from the Soviet pool that was giving the Soviets a huge boost they shouldn't have had. Sorry to go off topic but I didn't want to miss this item.



hfarrish -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/27/2011 1:09:39 AM)

The bulk of the game was in 1.03 - if that is not restored in a continued game then that probably explains it. Is 30k just the level that is getting produced each turn, to be used up at the phasing?

Thanks for the response on that...off topic I know but something was definitely not adding up between my manpower pools and the rapid decline in military strength.



hfarrish -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/27/2011 1:16:01 AM)

Also, did the same boost apply to the 42 campaign for the Sovs? This was a 42 campaign that started pretty normally but rapidly deteriorated for the Germans in June 43 to the point where the army (outside of the panzers) was totally incapable of defending, much less attacking, outside of level 4 forts. The lack of armaments would explain the deterioration...but I have no way of knowing if the Sovs were overpowered or not. If they were that would go a long way to explaining the outcome.



Joel Billings -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/27/2011 1:25:13 AM)

I don't think the Soviets had a similar boost in the 42 GC. The armaments change provides more armaments points over time than 1.03 did. Is the 30k German armaments, or all Axis aramaments? Often there are amouns in the Allied pools that the Germans can't use.



hfarrish -> RE: Partisan management and fortified zones (4/27/2011 2:44:36 AM)

Well, my opponent and I ended the game, but when I was citing figures it was the aggregate pools at the bottom of the list, which could well mean the Germans had nothing in terms of armaments (and not sure what it implies for manpower either). All I do know is that the panzers held up well as long as I used them exclusively for hammering enemy armored units while covering the retreat...while the infantry simply (and quite suddenly) reached a point of no return from where it was impossible to recover.

Glad to hear this has a cause and will be looking forward to taking up the 42 and 43 scenarios again soon.



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