RE: Demo first Impressions (Full Version)

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Erik Rutins -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 12:27:35 AM)

FYI:

quote:


Did you leave them in the "default setup area"? I immediately moved all my units to the woods and to the far right, tanks as far forward and to the right as they would go. I didn't lose anything the whole game to 82mm mortar fire though I did get several supressions I commented about to Erik and team.


This part of your post was constructive and good.

quote:

If you give up that easily you must hate losing? I'd never give up just because I lost several units in a "few" games. Now maybe I dunno Erik and team had it in for you and if the computer ai found out your name was Sztartur and they programmed it to key on your units just for funzzies knowing you would log online and complain about it so they could get a good laugh well yeah I guess I'd remove it also from my HD but I don't think that happened. [:)]


This part, not so much.

Customers should feel free to post both negative and positive impressions here without others making guesses about their motivations and personalities.

Regards,

- Erik




diablo1 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 12:29:58 AM)

quote:

Customers should feel free to post both negative and positive impressions here


This part of your post was good.



sztartur2 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 12:31:16 AM)

Gents

I do not mind losing If I know I made mistakes and that cost me the game. It has happened before and will happen later on. Of course I hate losing in such a way I described above.

Diablo: good joke eh :)



diablo1 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 12:33:37 AM)

quote:

Diablo: good joke eh :)


Yeah but Erik didn't get it. But when it comes to ME he never does he thinks I love slamming people all the time for some reason or other. I like to make light of things most of the time just to ease the discomfort of others. [:)]



Mad Russian -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 12:47:35 AM)

You keep that up Diablo and we'll make YOU a Matrix Customer Service Rep too!!! [&o]

Good Hunting.

MR



rickier65 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 12:57:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur

Gents

I do not mind losing If I know I made mistakes and that cost me the game. It has happened before and will happen later on. Of course I hate losing in such a way I described above.

Diablo: good joke eh :)



sztartur,

I may have played the Demo more than most of the folks here. And I've also lost Pz III's to the Mortars. it doesn't happen all the time, but it happens.

thanks
rick



sztartur2 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 7:33:36 PM)

OKAY I put it back on. Played it again now the PZ III survided a direct mortar hit.

Played the other scenario was quite fun.

Some questions:
Can the buildings be destroyed? (Like in CMx1.)
How big can the largest map be? (In CMBB it was 3kmX3km in CMAK it was 4kmX5km)
What is the unit number limit?

In the second scenario the flamethower fired at least six/eight times on two tanks not scored any kills. Is that also normal?







sztartur2 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 7:36:49 PM)

I also edited the demo XML file so the squad shows 10 men. That is very nice. I very much apreciate the openness of the system. Within some time the game will mature/gets its errors fixed and the modders will make the maximum out of the engine possibilities. I am not a modder just appreciate their excellent work. I am a scenario designer, those who know me in Steel Panthers I became notorius because of my HUGE scenarios [:D] .



rickier65 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 7:41:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur

OKAY I put it back on. Played it again now the PZ III survided a direct mortar hit.

Played the other scenario was quite fun.

Some questions:
Can the buildings be destroyed? (Like in CMx1.)
How big can the largest map be? (In CMBB it was 3kmX3km in CMAK it was 4kmX5km)
What is the unit number limit?

In the second scenario the flamethower fired at least six/eight times on two tanks not scored any kills. Is that also normal?


I think you must be using loaded dice! no, not normal for tank to survive that many FT attacks, I recall surviving a couple I think, but not that many.

Buildings can't be destroyed in this game. We are looking at that for the next game in the series.

The largest map size is 2km x 2km.

I don't know that there is a program limit to the number of units, but there is a performance hit as you add more and more units. There is a 5000 point limit (for each sie) when you use the scenario editor, but even that can be worked around.

Thanks I hope you give it a chance. The Novy scenario is a good scenario to see how the over all game plays.

Thanks
rick



Mad Russian -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 7:41:49 PM)

Maps are available in:

500 meters
750 meters
1km
1.5km
2km

lengths per side.

With the way PCO plays a 2km map feels larger than a 3km map in CM. At least to me it does. We'll see how some of you feel about it after you play on them for awhile.


OOB size is determined by points. You can have 5000 points per side.
Good Hunting.

MR



sztartur2 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 8:11:18 PM)

Last question. I red about many improvement plans, infantry, destroyable buildings, etc. I also red thet the next theatre will be the west-front. Are you going to make these future enhancements to the east-front part too?



Mad Russian -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 8:13:38 PM)

That's the plan.

Good Hunting.

MR



Erik Rutins -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 8:15:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur
Last question. I red about many improvement plans, infantry, destroyable buildings, etc. I also red thet the next theatre will be the west-front. Are you going to make these future enhancements to the east-front part too?


Yes, there is more East Front stuff coming before we go anywhere else. [8D]

Regards,

- Erik



sztartur2 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 8:18:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick

I think you must be using loaded dice! no, not normal for tank to survive that many FT attacks, I recall surviving a couple I think, but not that many.


I forgot to mention that in my first try the Stuka took out my own Halftrack... [8|]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick
Buildings can't be destroyed in this game. We are looking at that for the next game in the series.

Too bad... this should be a nust after CMX 1. Wooden peasant shacks are not bunkers!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick
The largest map size is 2km x 2km.

Is it going to get a bit larger with the expansions?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick
I don't know that there is a program limit to the number of units, but there is a performance hit as you add more and more units. There is a 5000 point limit (for each sie) when you use the scenario editor, but even that can be worked around.

OK

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick
Thanks I hope you give it a chance. The Novy scenario is a good scenario to see how the over all game plays.

Thanks
rick


I will as I am always stuck on the East Front [:D] But PLEASE make the enhancements of PC4 available also to East Front part...



sztartur2 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 8:22:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur
Last question. I red about many improvement plans, infantry, destroyable buildings, etc. I also red thet the next theatre will be the west-front. Are you going to make these future enhancements to the east-front part too?


Yes, there is more East Front stuff coming before we go anywhere else. [8D]

Regards,

- Erik



Sounds good but If you put all the nice infantry model and destructible building in PC 4 it shoud be somehow available for the East-Front fans as well... IMHO... PLEASE.



Mad Russian -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 8:33:49 PM)

The plan is the same for the entire PC series. Just like now with both PC:OWS and PC:K being playable in PCO. All games of the series will have the full set of playing options. Each game in the series is intended to be upgraded by the next game.


Good Hunting.

MR



sztartur2 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 8:38:46 PM)

Absolutely correct. I'm downloading my PCO at the moment [8D].



Zakhal -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 10:04:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur

I also edited the demo XML file so the squad shows 10 men.

What file is it?



sztartur2 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 10:11:24 PM)

there are lots of .xml files in the <Game directory>\Data\Infantry directory, you have to modify them one by one. Be very careful with editing, in order not to spoil the XML format.



JMass -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/13/2011 10:14:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur
Be very careful with editing, in order not to spoil the XML format.


It is better to do a mod JSGME compatible and share it.



Gerry4321 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/14/2011 5:33:50 AM)

Hello:

Is Novyy Rizadeh a tank graveyard for both sides? Even my PzVG didn't survive a turn.

Also, how does this scenario compare size-wise (# of units) to most scenarios in the full game.

Thanks,

Gerry



junk2drive -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/14/2011 5:37:46 AM)

Small for the Germans, medium for the Soviets. Quick way to check is look at the size meter in Set Battles. Pick a battle, pick a side, look at the TOE screen to see what they have. Click the back button and pick the other side and look at that TOE.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/14/2011 1:41:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gerry
Is Novyy Rizadeh a tank graveyard for both sides? Even my PzVG didn't survive a turn.


It is a bloody battle for armor as the Soviets are quite tank-heavy but have to assault into close range with infantry in terrain and buildings and the limited German armor has a heck of a fight on its hands.

quote:

Also, how does this scenario compare size-wise (# of units) to most scenarios in the full game.


There are 2km x 2km maps, which are four times the size of the Novy map. There are also maps as small as 500m x 500m. In terms of number of units on each side, it's probably average.

Regards,

- Erik




blastpop -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/14/2011 4:31:56 PM)

I've played both scenarios of the demo. Maybe I am missing something- but the demo leaves with very mixed emotions- I am not sure I like the interface or the gameplay as represented by the scenarios- didn't do much for me. The graphics are blah- but are not the deciding factor. I love the East Front. If there was a "meaty" scenario included in the demo to showcase the games strong points it would help me decide.

The problem with most demos from my perspective is companies in general try to give you a taste of the "crust" and not much of the "pie filling". Companies want you to buy the game to be sure, yet the desire to keep from any of the things that truly make a game interesting or memorable are not usually included in the demo. So at the end of the day you have a bit of an idea but not enough to make a purchasing decision. In my case most of the time I tend to move on as my lack of excitement from the demo usually doesn't translate into a purchase.



junk2drive -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/14/2011 4:39:58 PM)

The demo scenario is beefy IMO. Play it from both sides. Try the hard option. Maybe it is not your type of game or maybe you just haven't spent enough time with it to learn how to play?



Mad Russian -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/14/2011 4:42:12 PM)

I had a hand in the demo scenario and it was intended to give you a smaller sized slice of the pie. I take it that's how you feel about it. If we had given you a really large size battle you'd have been overwhelmed. It's not that we wanted to limit your experience. The demo needs to highlight the game capabilities. This demo has infantry, flamethrowers, aircraft, woods, a village, several types of AFV's - not just tanks and artillery support. What do you think we left out?

Let me say that if the Eastern Front is your area of interest on a tactical level then this game could be for you.

If you like the ability to fight with battalion sized units all the way down to platoon sized battles if you like, this game could be for you.

If you like the ability to make maps of actual terrain this game could be for you.

If you aren't interested in any of that this game may not be for you.

At the end of the day, only you can decide if this game is for you.

I just know this game is for me.

Good Hunting.

MR



Erik Rutins -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/14/2011 5:07:22 PM)

Hi Blastpop,

quote:

ORIGINAL: blastpop
I've played both scenarios of the demo. Maybe I am missing something- but the demo leaves with very mixed emotions- I am not sure I like the interface or the gameplay as represented by the scenarios- didn't do much for me. The graphics are blah- but are not the deciding factor. I love the East Front. If there was a "meaty" scenario included in the demo to showcase the games strong points it would help me decide.


There's certainly a learning curve to the interface, particularly the orders, but once you get it the rest of the game is quite easy. What would be your definition of "meaty" - a longer scenario on a bigger map with more units, or a campaign?

Regards,

- Erik



blastpop -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/14/2011 5:39:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi Blastpop,

quote:

ORIGINAL: blastpop
I've played both scenarios of the demo. Maybe I am missing something- but the demo leaves with very mixed emotions- I am not sure I like the interface or the gameplay as represented by the scenarios- didn't do much for me. The graphics are blah- but are not the deciding factor. I love the East Front. If there was a "meaty" scenario included in the demo to showcase the games strong points it would help me decide.


There's certainly a learning curve to the interface, particularly the orders, but once you get it the rest of the game is quite easy. What would be your definition of "meaty" - a longer scenario on a bigger map with more units, or a campaign?

Regards,

- Erik




Probably more units - that way you see more combined arms and more interactions and the potential for game play created interesting situations. Don't get me wrong I am sure its a good game and not trying to be critical. I am also sure the game shines with campaign play and the continuity and story line it creates.

I will go back and try again- and maybe the day, mood, phase of the moon and so on... [:D] may have unduly influenced me. Truth be told I am pre-disposed to liking the game due to subject matter- so I owe it to myself it give it another go.

Thanks guys for chiming in.



diablo1 -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/14/2011 7:09:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: blastpop

I've played both scenarios of the demo. Maybe I am missing something- but the demo leaves with very mixed emotions- I am not sure I like the interface or the gameplay as represented by the scenarios- didn't do much for me. The graphics are blah- but are not the deciding factor. I love the East Front. If there was a "meaty" scenario included in the demo to showcase the games strong points it would help me decide.

The problem with most demos from my perspective is companies in general try to give you a taste of the "crust" and not much of the "pie filling". Companies want you to buy the game to be sure, yet the desire to keep from any of the things that truly make a game interesting or memorable are not usually included in the demo. So at the end of the day you have a bit of an idea but not enough to make a purchasing decision. In my case most of the time I tend to move on as my lack of excitement from the demo usually doesn't translate into a purchase.


Man the game is $34.99, you're getting a LOT for that price. Look how much they want for CM:BN and you're not getting half as much as this game in relation to units, terrain and editing abilities. Let alone you get a better random battle generator in this game and even a random CAMPAIGN generator that that other game doesn't even offer. This games not perfect I'll say that, but, for the price it's worth that much just from what all that comes with it and what the future holds for player made stuff if you're into that.



Zap -> RE: Demo first Impressions (5/14/2011 8:21:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

With the right settings and little learning curve Ive had no trouble keeping track of the game. In the winter defense scenario everything went perfectly according to my plan. 45mm ATGs fired at the germanic invaders from right flank while platoon of T-26 rushed at them from the left flank and ATR fire rained upon them from the front and mortar barrage from above. It was quite fun to watch the german vehicles get hits and blow up one by one.

For record I have to say I didnt really like either of the previous PC games. I tried hard but things like reaction turns and lack of infantry immersion killed it. This game though seems to draw me in and I dont even have to try like it.





What settings do you suggest I use to better keep track of what is goig on?



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