Funny things on the way to Berlin (Full Version)

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Belphegor -> Funny things on the way to Berlin (5/9/2011 2:09:17 AM)

server game, now completed.

43-45
I was given a minor victory although I did take Berlin in Feb of 45 (rule change somewhere?)
as well, last turn the end turn button disappeared (maybe because I took a hex of berlin) but was able to use f12 to finish.

Over the last few turns I was seeing negative (large negative) combat values in the calculations of the combat replays, and retreating units routinely backed up 10-15 hexes before finding somewhere to land. This last turn, that included the hex they left from, as the defenders both re-appeared as 0=0 combat units which were unassailable by the troops which just won against them.



Joel Billings -> RE: Funny things on the way to Berlin (5/9/2011 5:06:03 PM)

Can you attach a save from the last turn of the game so we can check the victory conditions. We haven't changed the victory conditions since release, so either the game or the manual is wrong. Also, please post saves if you have them for the oddities you saw with regard to the negative CV values or the units that retreated to their own hex (preferably before where you can tell us which units to attack to repeat the problem). If you can't zip up and post the saves here, you can email them to 2by3@2by3games.com. Thanks.



Belphegor -> RE: Funny things on the way to Berlin (5/9/2011 9:34:18 PM)

Hi Joel

This is a slitherine server game between myself (belphegor, soviet) and Aolain as axis. I'm not sure how I can help based on that as I don't believe there are local saves? My apologies. The negative values should be present in any attack at message level 1 or 2... final values always positive, but encountered many negative values while watching the combat replay including negative engineering values (5 or 6 digit negative values)

The game is marked as completed on about turn 86ish...

Let me know if I can help however. I think the units ending up in the same hex was simply a crowding issue where there were no free hexes available for the retreating units to go (after retreating many hexes) and ended up by a fluke of the retreat routine back where they started (sheer conjecture)



Joel Billings -> RE: Funny things on the way to Berlin (5/9/2011 10:01:02 PM)

So you think there were no available spots anywhere on the map to retreat to? It would be great to get confirmation of this from your opponent. I downloaded the Soviet turn from the server and it said it was a Major Soviet Victory. I was able to get the large negative numbers for ending CVs when I attacked Berlin, so I sent the save to Pavel. I didn't replicatge the retreat bug, but if you pushed the Germans back up against the map edge, it may be possible to create a bug when there's no place to retreat.



Belphegor -> RE: Funny things on the way to Berlin (5/9/2011 10:09:12 PM)

I'll ask him. From my perspective it was the only thing that could explain the unit moving so far during retreat. I don't think necessarily that the map was full, only the decision to retreat, then retreat again finally placed the unit next to the empty hex that was the original hex.

My impression of the retreat routine roughly is, retreat away from combat, to a friendly controlled hex, if full, move to another friendly hex (if all full, do it again in new hex) repeat until an empty hex is found...

If you conduct any attacks near Leipzig or Dresden you should be able to reproduce the retreat paths that tend to draw circles on the map. Units attacked in the south tended to end up North of Berlin many times. Very infrequently did units withdraw the expected 1-3 hexes if there was any unit depth in the area.

I didn't see any real issue with the retreats until that one that put them back where they started.

Whether or not you'll see it end up back where it started...?

if I recall correctly, it was an attack southwest of Berlin towards the Northeast....sorry that's not much help.

Glad you were able to reproduce.

Next game I'll work on better command and control [;)]



Belphegor -> RE: Funny things on the way to Berlin (5/9/2011 10:11:50 PM)

and here's the view from the multiplayer screen for the victory conditions



[image]local://upfiles/11973/6151FAA3C7344077AF214E96F586A885.jpg[/image]



Aolain327 -> RE: Funny things on the way to Berlin (5/9/2011 11:26:52 PM)

There were places to retreat, but the map did get rather full. I tried to disband units near the end, but many of them had no option to disband. I was thinking it was just all the destroyed units popping back up. It was a mass of units, all right--they seemed to flower all over the place during the last few turns.

And Bel is right, the game ended when the first hex of Berlin fell.



Joel Billings -> RE: Funny things on the way to Berlin (5/10/2011 1:35:32 AM)

Sounds like the multiplayer screen victory conditions are not in sync with the victory screen and manual victory conditions. Thanks for the report. As for the retreat maybe the units were destroyed during the retreat over many hexes and then placed on the original hex as the only spot that a destroyed unit could return to? Was the hex attacked a town/city hex?



Belphegor -> RE: Funny things on the way to Berlin (5/12/2011 12:16:15 AM)

sorry, I don't recall.



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