RTN Corvette Chao Phya (Full Version)

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Shark7 -> RTN Corvette Chao Phya (5/29/2011 5:28:37 AM)

I have seen a few references to a Thai corvette named Chao Phya, but I have not been able to dig up any information on this ship, or confirm that it even existed. Does anyone have any light to shed on this subject?



el cid again -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (5/29/2011 6:55:00 AM)

Maneverability (game scale) 80.

Endurance 2500

Fuel 62

4 x 20 mm guns (Forward, Rear, Right Side and Left Side)

12/41 start

No armor

Durability 1

Bitmap 80 (WITP RHS data set, still available)

WITP classification: PG

Maximum Speed: 16 knots

Cruising Speed: 14 knots

Ex HMS Ilarant, Minesweeper, Built 1918 by Eltringhams S. Shields

See 1939 Edition of Janes Figthing Ships, p 459 for a black and white image.

Engines: i.h.p = 2200 - that is - she had reciprocating steam engines.




Shark7 -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (5/29/2011 7:12:18 AM)

Thanks El Cid, nice to know it actually existed. And with the former name, its very easy to identify. Also thanks for the heads up on existing art for it. [:)]



Sharps9 -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (5/29/2011 9:32:00 PM)

So its basically a short range anti-aircraft escort? No depth charges or deck guns larger than 20mm?



Terminus -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (5/29/2011 9:53:07 PM)

She was a former RN "Hunt"-class minesweeper. The WWI kind, not the destroyer escorts of WWII. Tiny little thing; I'd call it a PC.

Original armament was a 4in QF gun, a 12pdr and a pair of .303 MGs.



Shark7 -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (5/29/2011 10:20:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharps9

So its basically a short range anti-aircraft escort? No depth charges or deck guns larger than 20mm?



The RTN was really only concerned with defending their extremely long coast line, their ships reflect this concern in that most of them have little to no ASW, and really only ASuW capability. This ships has a heavier AAW capability than many of their front line ships. This particular ship was most likely used for fisheries and coastal patrol, and in that role would not need a heavy armament. So to answer your question, its not really an escort at all, its a peacetime patrol boat...at least that is probably the better description.

Ships like this are usually used to apprehend fishing boats that enter sovereign waters illegally.



el cid again -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (5/29/2011 10:54:35 PM)

Well said - also to catch smugglers and people trying to enter or leave the country illegally.
It is indeed a patrol boat - which is why I classified it as a PG. It COULD mount a 3 or 4
inch gun - it originally did - and the weapon probably still existed. RTN had a shipyard
able to do things like mount a deck mounted gun. IF RTN wanted to fight - it might have done
what wartime navies did with its minor craft and merchants. But RTN did not like its war in 1940
with France - and had no stomach for war with the Allies - and so just kept its head down.



Shark7 -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (5/29/2011 11:51:43 PM)

For those wondering, here it is. Knowing that it was once a Hunt minesweeper, finding the missing data was much easier.

You have to keep in mind that the Hunt minesweepers were built in large numbers in WWI, basically they are 'quantity, not quality' type hulls. Looking up the Hunt minesweepers revealed a standard displacement of 710 - 800 tons, so I went with the lower number (in truth with the removal of the 12pdr guns and sweeping gear, the displacement is probably even lower).

You will also notice a Chow Praya, this was ex HMS Havant, another Hunt class minesweeper, but in its case it retained its 12pdr guns.

And the guns are Italian models which are older than the standard Allied 20mm Oerlikon, and seemed more appropriate in this case. Though I could be completely wrong in that regard.




[image]local://upfiles/25927/88817707060146469BBB23DF8050C1A9.jpg[/image]



inqistor -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/1/2011 8:07:14 PM)

For 710 tons 1 Durability is kinda low. 1200 tons DD have 5 Durability.

Also, is there difference in anti-mine behavior of dedicated minesweepers, and patrol crafts? If ship is former minesweeper, no reason to reduce this ability after conversion.

I see, that PC can get into Fast Transport TF, with 16 max speed, this probably should not, so PB seems better option.



Shark7 -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/2/2011 12:50:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

For 710 tons 1 Durability is kinda low. 1200 tons DD have 5 Durability.

Also, is there difference in anti-mine behavior of dedicated minesweepers, and patrol crafts? If ship is former minesweeper, no reason to reduce this ability after conversion.

I see, that PC can get into Fast Transport TF, with 16 max speed, this probably should not, so PB seems better option.


Except for the fact that the RTN had it rebuilt as a peacetime patrol boat and the British landed all the sweeping gear prior to delivery to the RTN. The PB rather than PC makes sense on the fast transport angle though, and that is easily enough fixed.

Probably needs to have a durability of 2, unless the age of the vessel is taken into account. Again, easily fixed.



oldman45 -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 3:52:22 AM)

She almost looks like some kind of river craft.

Found a passage in Lentons book.

1500nm range using coal [;)] 16knts max speed



Shark7 -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 4:02:44 AM)

Well, I might have picked the wrong artwork to use in game, but I believe it was very close if not the one that was meant to be it.

That one is not my artwork, but all the features of the real ship and the artwork do match up.

You can find pictures of them by simply searching 'Hunt Class Minesweeper 1916'.



oldman45 -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 4:10:13 AM)

you posted while I was typing. Looking at a picture of it, its close enough for government work [:)]

Isn't the RAN Doomba in the game, its an old hunt class.



Shark7 -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 4:26:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

She almost looks like some kind of river craft.

Found a passage in Lentons book.

1500nm range using coal [;)] 16knts max speed


Ah, a more accurate range, I'll make that change right now.



redcoat -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 11:39:52 AM)


A photo and info from Jane's Fighting Ships 1942.

[image]local://upfiles/17963/91EB9107B97545CF9C9D598606C4718B.jpg[/image]



Shark7 -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 2:44:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: redcoat


A photo and info from Jane's Fighting Ships 1942.

[image]local://upfiles/17963/91EB9107B97545CF9C9D598606C4718B.jpg[/image]


Thanks redcoat, that helps a lot. I really need to get a copy of Jane's or Conway's, since they have better info.



redcoat -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 3:09:42 PM)


You’re welcome. I’ve just had a look in Conway’s All the World’s Fighting Ships and it does not have much to say about the Chow Phraya. You already have the same information already. Conway’s only adds that the Chow Phraya was decommissioned on 24/8/71.



Whisper -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 6:28:07 PM)

Was asked to post this by the Babes developers.

Chao Phya - tonnage = 770; endurance = 2700; Fuel = 158 (assuming Yarrows converted for oil - endurance = 1600, fuel = 110, if not); Max speed = 16; cruise = 12; maneuver = 45; durability = 3; bitmap = 143; Type = 19 - PC (Patrol Craft).

Tell the poster not to listen to the idiots saying ships are treated differently in TFs. They are treated differently, in specific ways, but nothing like those idiots suggest. Those people have no clue, and listening to them is a sure way to screw up. It's very straight forward, so if the poster has a specific question about that, have him ask it. Someone knowledgeable will respond.




el cid again -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 6:31:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

For 710 tons 1 Durability is kinda low. 1200 tons DD have 5 Durability.

Also, is there difference in anti-mine behavior of dedicated minesweepers, and patrol crafts? If ship is former minesweeper, no reason to reduce this ability after conversion.

I see, that PC can get into Fast Transport TF, with 16 max speed, this probably should not, so PB seems better option.


Probably a MS is better at minesweeping - or even a PG won't sweep at all. Anyway - the ship is NOT a MS any more -
her sweeps were landed and her crew is untrained - a big deal - MS is as hard as ASW. It IS possible to clear a FEW mines
using paravanes on ANY ship - my 10,000 ton APA had them - and riflemen shoot the mine horns once they surface.
But this is not a great way to sweep mines!



el cid again -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 6:33:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

She almost looks like some kind of river craft.

Found a passage in Lentons book.

1500nm range using coal [;)] 16knts max speed


Ah, a more accurate range, I'll make that change right now.


Except it appears she used oil fuel by WWII - see Jane's - and we don't really model coal in our system very well.



el cid again -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 6:37:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whisper

Was asked to post this by the Babes developers.

Chao Phya - tonnage = 770; endurance = 2700; Fuel = 158 (assuming Yarrows converted for oil - endurance = 1600, fuel = 110, if not); Max speed = 16; cruise = 12; maneuver = 45; durability = 3; bitmap = 143; Type = 19 - PC (Patrol Craft).

Tell the poster not to listen to the idiots saying ships are treated differently in TFs. They are treated differently, in specific ways, but nothing like those idiots suggest. Those people have no clue, and listening to them is a sure way to screw up. It's very straight forward, so if the poster has a specific question about that, have him ask it. Someone knowledgeable will respond.





Too bad Matrix has given up trying to enforce civil language in the Forums. Many have left (so they write) because of hostile language.
Nothing is gained by name calling - but you do lose respect when you do it.



Whisper -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 7:15:24 PM)

The people who left because of you are the developers and the people who are smart and who play this game for what it has to offer and who give back. You are nothing but a dog who pisses a thousand times a day in every corner he can find and as soon as anybody posts anything worthwhile, you run off and piss on that as soon as you can and as many times as you can

How dare you talk about respect..



Shark7 -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 7:45:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whisper

Was asked to post this by the Babes developers.

Chao Phya - tonnage = 770; endurance = 2700; Fuel = 158 (assuming Yarrows converted for oil - endurance = 1600, fuel = 110, if not); Max speed = 16; cruise = 12; maneuver = 45; durability = 3; bitmap = 143; Type = 19 - PC (Patrol Craft).

Tell the poster not to listen to the idiots saying ships are treated differently in TFs. They are treated differently, in specific ways, but nothing like those idiots suggest. Those people have no clue, and listening to them is a sure way to screw up. It's very straight forward, so if the poster has a specific question about that, have him ask it. Someone knowledgeable will respond.




Thank you, that also looks a lot more natural...the 80 mvr did seem quite high.



Rainer -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/3/2011 11:35:29 PM)

Whisper, you're running the risk to have this thread locked because of your language ....



inqistor -> RE: RTN Corvette Chao Phya (6/11/2011 8:47:12 AM)

In WITP DD equipped with DCs could "sweep" few mines. I am not sure if it is still true for AE, but AM do not seem to need any weapons, to sweep mines.

So, what is the bahaviour of PG/PB in this topic?



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