White Phosphorous (Full Version)

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Lucullus -> White Phosphorous (12/29/2000 2:44:00 AM)

I don't know if this issue has been discussed before, but here goes. The U.S. Army used sizeable quanties of White Phosphorous not only for smoke screens but for its disruptive and anti-personale effects on enemy soldiers. Is there a chance that this could be modelled in the game?



Wild Bill -> (12/29/2000 3:41:00 AM)

Yes, it was mentioned and it was included in a "possible" list. Unfortunately, it did not make it. It would be a great addition to the game. WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Rhone -> (12/29/2000 6:58:00 AM)

The bomb blast effect could be a sparkler effect followed by the standard smoke graphic and the sound effect where there were infantry would just be people screaming. Ouch, from what I've read, that was some of the most feared and controversial "substance" used in the war.



Flashfyre -> (12/29/2000 11:12:00 AM)

quote:

Ouch, from what I've read, that was some of the most feared and controversial "substance" used in the war.
Very true. White phosphorus, or "Willy Pete", is a chemical substance that reacts when exposed to air. It is fatal in doses as small as 15mg, and skin exposure results in severe burns (yellowish, garlic-like odor, fluorescent under ultraviolet light). Used in hand grenades, mortar and artillery shells, and aircraft ordnance. Usually stored under water; submersion of an injured person is the recommended method of halting further injury. It's main use is as a smoke-generator. As to modelling it in-game, smoke shells and ammo are already there. Only they don't cause injury; maybe adding damage rating to smoke ammo would do it. ------------------ The Motor Pool http://www.geocities.com/aurion_eq/index.html?976419304550 [email]kmcferren@cvn.net[/email]



Lucullus -> (12/29/2000 12:34:00 PM)

"Very true. White phosphorus, or "Willy Pete", is a chemical substance that reacts when exposed to air. It is fatal in doses as Usually stored under water; submersion of an injured person is the recommended method of halting further injury." I may be mistaken but it is my understanding that WP would still ignite underwater. That was what was so frightening about the substance, it could not be quenched by water. If any of it attached itself to you, you would have to pull it off. Otherwise it would burn into you. The reason I think this would be a good addition to SPWAW, besides historical accuracy, is that it might go a long way towards improving US performance. I have seen other threads commenting on the percieved weaknesses in U.S. equipment and unit organization. I might be wrong, I would bet a preliminary bombardment with WP shells would be more effective than the standard bombardment with a battery of 105's.



Rhone -> (12/29/2000 1:07:00 PM)

quote:

An excerpt from "Citizen Soldier" by Ambrose: "White Phosphorus was horror." Lt. Robert Weiss got caught in a rare German barrage of white phosphorous shells (rare because the Germna supply was insufficient). He recalled the bursting of the shell, followed by "a snowstorm of small, white particles that floated down upon us. We looked in amazement, and eyes filled with instant terror. Where the particles landed on shirts and trousers they sizzled and burned. White phosphorus! We brushed our clothing frantically, pushed shirt collars up. If any of the stuff touched the skin, it could inflict a horrible burn, increasing in intensity as it burrowed into a man's flesh.... "Another Shell. Another missle from hell. Fiery Snow! I remember thinking that if the shelling kept up for long it would be more than most men could endure. There was nowhere to hide, no place that was safe." Fortunately, that was the last. The American tankers loved white phosphorus. They quickly learned that one or two shells fired into a German position meant you didn't have to worry about that machine gun any longer.



Igor -> (12/29/2000 2:39:00 PM)

The only serious problem with WP rounds is that the smoke screen is gone by the next turn. The updraft created by the burning phosphorus wicks all the smoke away; and so you need massive numbers of rounds to maintain a smoke screen (and the coverage is rather spotty). All things being considered, WP rounds should probably be handled like flame attacks with no meaningful HE penetration. In their hex, against troops in the open, they're murder; but against armor or positions with overhead cover they aren't much use. Any obscuration would be gone by the next turn unless a secondary fire was started. Regardless of warhead size, only one hex can possibly be affected (the fragments never went more than 20 or so yards). Still, it would make a fun option for a battery of 105s, wouldn't it...



mogami -> (12/29/2000 11:29:00 PM)

Hi, 3rd AD found WP to be usefull in knocking out Tigers!!! ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!



Kluckenbill -> (12/29/2000 11:53:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Mogami: Hi, 3rd AD found WP to be usefull in knocking out Tigers!!!
There is an account in "Death Traps" describing how a Sherman with a short 75 knocked out 2 Tigers with Willie Pete. I don't know how common this was, however. ------------------ Target, Cease Fire !



Paul Vebber -> (12/30/2000 11:07:00 PM)

Right now there is no way to include WP. Depending on the mods requested to be made for SP:MW, that may have it.



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