RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds 1 Series



Message

J HG T -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/5/2011 1:40:33 PM)

The only automation I use nowadays is automated tax rates for my planets. Everything else I control myself.
Still, I tend to play smaller games with harsh settings so that the empires stay relatively small throughout the whole game. My current empire as Kiadians is about 20 planets large and I have no problems managing it. 
As Igard said, the more you learn, the more simple and clear the game feels.

For the mods I would recommend Diverse Worlds, super AI mod, Racial troop images mod and forementioned planet images from Igard. 
Compoing Super AI mod and Diverse World needs some notepadding, but it's nothing too complicated. 



Data -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/5/2011 2:53:36 PM)

quote:

As Igard said, the more you learn, the more simple and clear the game feels.


I still rememeber how long it took me to learn MOO2 but now I just can't imagine why....no matter how rare I revisit it it's like riding a bicycle.
Some games, like MOO2 and DW, are really worth the initial effort for the constant fun they provide afterward.



Data -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/5/2011 2:54:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

quote:

As Igard said, the more you learn, the more simple and clear the game feels.


I still remember how long it took me to learn MOO2 but now I just can't imagine why....no matter how rare I revisit it it's like riding a bicycle.
Some games, like MOO2 and DW, are really worth the initial effort for the constant fun they provide afterward.




kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/5/2011 3:39:26 PM)

I am slowly picking it up, with less automating stuff now I have the hang of some of the games concepts. Still have not taken a colony using troops, only blockaded planets, but am mainly enjoying the trading presently which is fun. Similar to the X3 games, although in a sense they are a space FPS with a very interesting economic system, but this is a 4X so in that aspect they are totally different genres.

Was previously playing games with loads of alien races, my galaxy soon got bogged down with too much going on, so now, in my latest game I am using a 700 star system with 5 races, and am beginning to understand a little bit more how not to use automation and do things manually.

It is an interesting experience.





Kayoz -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/5/2011 5:16:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kev_uk

Was previously playing games with loads of alien races, my galaxy soon got bogged down with too much going on, so now, in my latest game I am using a 700 star system with 5 races, and am beginning to understand a little bit more how not to use automation and do things manually.


I'd suggest trying playing on "Quick Start"->"Epic".

The "Start New Game" method has a very poor distribution of races throughout the galaxy. Check it out for yourself. Start a new game with say 7 races of random distances. They're all random distances FROM YOU. So if you're in the bottom left corner, you'll see the upper right to be completely unoccupied - and the centre probably only having one race there.

This has been an issue from release, and still has not been fixed despite being brought to Elliot's attention repeatedly.



kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/5/2011 6:34:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

As you get better, you'll find that it's far less confusing. Make good use of the pause button 'space bar'. I always pause when I'm being attacked, or preparing to attack someone. When nothing's happening, you can then speed the game up.

The Star Trek mods are by far the best mods ever made for any computer game in the history of computer gaming. Ok, I'm joking [:D], but I put a lot of work into them. Even though they don't replicate Star Trek perfectly, they're still varied enough to get lots of enjoyment from.

Woodman's Diverse Worlds is essential IMO, for more variety of ship images.

Lordxorn's Star Wars mod is really cool.

There's my WIP planet images. This will slow down the game on some slower computers.

They're all on Lordxorn's mod compedium, as well as lots more :- http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2440865


Thanks Igard..

Using your Kirk ST mod...really really cool graphics and sounds. Kudos for this!



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/6/2011 6:30:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

The Star Trek mods are by far the best mods ever made for any computer game in the history of computer gaming. Ok, I'm joking [:D], but I put a lot of work into them. Even though they don't replicate Star Trek perfectly, they're still varied enough to get lots of enjoyment from.


I must concur with you Igard (Although I rarely agree with Romulans)! Especially after testing
them all after watching you create them from the start....kudos! [&o]

....and again, thanks for the Orion Slave Girl! [:D]



kev_uk -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/6/2011 4:45:23 PM)

I like (sexist mode on) the Aayla Secura race ;-) Always polite and helpful (although I think its called Securan race or somesuch like).



Erik Rutins -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/10/2011 3:29:20 PM)

Hi Kayoz,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
If you want a quantitative look at the support - look at the timeline of patches for DW sans-expansion. You'll see an enormous gap when Erik fixed bugs in the expansion, but did nothing to roll those fixes back into the base game. What message does give to consumers who didn't buy the expansion?


It's clear that you are not very positive about the game right now, but I'm not sure I understand the above. After ROTS was released, we specifically released another update (now two) for the original Distant Worlds, adding not only the bug fixes from ROTS, but also many of the AI and modding improvements.

quote:

2. Expansions - expansions seem to add cosmetic changes to the game, without addressing the most important features, which imo are balance and AI. AI, for example, makes random, spotty attacks without any real rhyme nor reason, and sticks to its pestering attacks with a lemming-like suicidal single-mindedness. The problems with the AI should have been addressed in patches or at the very least the expansions - yet there has been no improvement. Sure, new weapons is cool and a more expansive story line is amusing - but ****e AI means replayability is sacrificed for shiny baubles.


I find this to be hard to follow as well. ROTS made major improvements to the AI compared to the original Distant Worlds. If you're playing DW 1.07+, you may not realize that as we also gave those for free to customers who had not purchased the expansion pack. Is there more room to improve the AI? Absolutely, and just as with the first expansion, we'll be making more improvements to it in the second expansion pack. However, to say that we did not add major or significant features or improve the AI simply does not hold water.

quote:

3. News - none. None at all. No fortnightly blog from the devs, no updates from Matrix nor from Erik. There's no way of telling if they're doing anything or if the whole DW title has been sh*t-canned.


I've posted here to say that we're working on the next expansion, previewed a few features, confirmed that another update for ROTS is also going to happen. I'm sorry that doesn't meet your expectations, but honestly we tend to focus on working on the next expansio rather than promoting it until we are closer to release. The idea that you can't tell if we're doing anything doesn't seem to hold water to me either. I understand you want more information, but to say that you have none is simply not true.

My general impression from your comments is that you would like us to do better. We'll take that to heart, but if we don't update frequently enough for you or do as much as you want, please don't exaggerate that to suggest that we do nothing.

Regards,

- Erik



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/10/2011 4:18:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I've posted here to say that we're working on the next expansion, previewed a few features, confirmed that another update for ROTS is also going to happen. I'm sorry that doesn't meet your expectations, but honestly we tend to focus on working on the next expansio rather than promoting it until we are closer to release. The idea that you can't tell if we're doing anything doesn't seem to hold water to me either. I understand you want more information, but to say that you have none is simply not true.

My general impression from your comments is that you would like us to do better. We'll take that to heart, but if we don't update frequently enough for you or do as much as you want, please don't exaggerate that to suggest that we do nothing.

Regards,

- Erik


For a small company Erik, I think you, Elliot and the rest have done a FABULOUS job with Distant Worlds.
Especially when you don't have the budget or resources like Microsoft, Sierra and other large game
producing companies. We know to expect a few 'out-of-this-world' ranting from time to time from those
who both do, and don't, have programming degrees...or even prowess. Please remember that those from the
'Dark Side' are few, and that there are MANY of us here that will always be grateful and supportive
of your efforts. [&o]



[image]local://upfiles/35889/130567E7352D412CB74FF24418EF483E.gif[/image]



Igard -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/10/2011 6:18:53 PM)

I'll just echo what Ed said.

Erik and Elliot, you're doing a fab job. Keep it up.

Really grateful that you gave us some info on the next expansion so early on. It's nice to see our pleading and begging actually worked this time.

Good luck with it all and here's hoping for a long, successful future for  the DW, Codeforce and Matrix partnership.



Moltrey -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/10/2011 6:21:13 PM)

Kayoz:
Why all the axe-grinding? There are a million things you can do with your free time, this game being only one of them. Do yourself and everyone else here a favor and back off some. How hard is it to understand the realities forced upon a small independent shop like CodeForce? Do you honestly think everyone can support dozens to hundreds of programmers? Try to be a little less negative and focus on the good side of things.




Data -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/10/2011 7:24:29 PM)

I've said my mind on this many times so I'll not repeat myself, I'll just say that Ed is spot on and I'll join him as one of the many grateful ones. Any step forward you guys take for our small 4x community is important, you're fighting the good fight; keep it up, we're behind you.[sm=love0059.gif]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/10/2011 9:43:49 PM)

Hi guys,

My goal is not to pile on Kayoz. It's clear he enjoys the game too, but he is just unhappy that we haven't done more and better. I can respect that sentiment and I know that we have a lot more to do. I just wanted to post a rebuttal to some of the hyperbole. I accept the constructive criticism, but not the exaggerations.

Regards,

- Erik



Simulation01 -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/10/2011 11:52:42 PM)

A dev blog would be nice.  Maybe a sentence or two a week wouldn't kill you???  ****cringes in preparation for firing squad****







Kayoz -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/11/2011 12:02:30 AM)

Erik,

First off, thank you for your reply. It is quite surprising and reassuring to have a company rep actually respond to grievances. Most companies ignore it - or in the case with some (ex: Eve online), they simply delete any negative threads - which results in deeper suspicion and gamers moving on.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

It's clear that you are not very positive about the game right now, but I'm not sure I understand the above. After ROTS was released, we specifically released another update (now two) for the original Distant Worlds, adding not only the bug fixes from ROTS, but also many of the AI and modding improvements.


2010-05-25 DW Release
2010-07-29 DW 1.06
2011-05-06 DW 1.07
2011-07-07 DW 1.071

2010-12-26 DWRotS Release
2011-01-11 DWRotS 1.501
2011-04-05 DWRotS 1.508

Specifically, I draw your attention to the time period between the release of DW106 (2010-07-29) and DW107 (2011-05-05). During that time, DWRotS was released and there were a flurry of hotfixes to address crash conditions and behavioural bugs - some of which were rolled into DW with the 1.07 release - but until 107 release, any DW owner would be looking at the fixes and saying to himself, "This happens in DW vanilla - why aren't they fixing it in the game I bought?" - and the obvious next question - "Do they expect me to PAY for a BUG FIX by only offering the bug fix in the expansion?".

I am not contesting what Matrix did - rolling the fixes back into vanilla DW makes sense. What I contest is the promulgation - or lack thereof - of bug-fixing plans for vanilla DW. It sent a very negative message to those who hadn't bought the expansion pack - or to prospective buyers - of the support they could expect. "Buy the expansion pack if you want bug fixes" is what the silence seemed to say.

The way to address this, would be to, as bugs are fixed - to specifically indicate their applicability to vanilla DW. For example, a simple line in a post addressing a bug, "this bug also applies to the DW (sans expansion) code branch and will be fixed in the next update". This was never done. A similar statement could be made in the release statement of a DWRotS update - yet this was never done.

If these were done, I never saw them. The posts were buried in a mass of user comments. Which also hilights the need for a product-specific news blog, so that users can see the latest news from Matrix on their game of choice - and dig into the user comments at their own peril.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I find this to be hard to follow as well. ROTS made major improvements to the AI compared to the original Distant Worlds. If you're playing DW 1.07+, you may not realize that as we also gave those for free to customers who had not purchased the expansion pack. Is there more room to improve the AI? Absolutely, and just as with the first expansion, we'll be making more improvements to it in the second expansion pack. However, to say that we did not add major or significant features or improve the AI simply does not hold water.


This may very well be a case of poor promulgation of information. I didn't see any specific reference to AI changes in DW, as opposed to those in DWRotS. If it was hidden in the release notes, then perhaps I missed it.

With respect to DWRotS, there has been mention of more space creatures, new technologies and political choices. But no mention of any AI improvements. The message I get from these announcements and the accompanying lack of announcement on AI, is - "we're adding a floor onto the house of DW, but we're not going to fix the foundation".

As with the above issue, I believe it is likely caused by the disorganized manner of Matrix announcements.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I've posted here to say that we're working on the next expansion, previewed a few features, confirmed that another update for ROTS is also going to happen. I'm sorry that doesn't meet your expectations, but honestly we tend to focus on working on the next expansio rather than promoting it until we are closer to release. The idea that you can't tell if we're doing anything doesn't seem to hold water to me either. I understand you want more information, but to say that you have none is simply not true.


I would suggest you get some random bloke - say any three random people inspecting the shelves of the local game retailer. Give them access to a laptop and point the browser to your web site - then ask them to find, in 15 minutes - what's happened with a hypothetical purchase of DW.
What fixes are available?
Is there anything in the pipeline?

Now pin and roll your web site back to 2011-04-01 - a few days before the release of DWRotS1508. Would these average users be able to find any information on DW - or as I propose, they would be left with the impression that their hypothetical DW purchase has gone more or less forgotten by Matrix for about 6 months?

The fact that I - a not-average user - can find the information isn't the point. I'm drawing attention to the ability of the average user to find the information.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

My general impression from your comments is that you would like us to do better. We'll take that to heart, but if we don't update frequently enough for you or do as much as you want, please don't exaggerate that to suggest that we do nothing.


Granted - Matrix isn't doing "nothing". But I ask you:
(1) Given the current promulgation methods, can the average user find information relevant to his purchase, in a timely and easy manner?
(2) What would the cost-benefit return on a few improvements to promulgation be?

Adapt or perish, now as ever, is nature's inexorable imperative.
H. G. Wells

Regards,
Kayoz



Kayoz -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/11/2011 12:22:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pdwest64

Kayoz:
Why all the axe-grinding? There are a million things you can do with your free time, this game being only one of them.


The same could be said for you. Why are YOU wasting your time commenting? This statement stinks of asking for a flame war - if that's what you want, just clarify your intention and I'll respond appropriately.

To be honest, if I care about something and I see something bad, I'll try to do something about it. If I don't care, or I don't expect I can expect any change - I'll just walk away. I can see where Blizzard is going with Warcraft - 600,000 users including myself chose to leave. Some of us have tried to talk sense into Blizzard - others have seen their efforts and shook our heads in dismay. Most can't be arsed either way, and will go to the market competitor that offers what they want.

Is this what you want for Matrix?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pdwest64
Do yourself and everyone else here a favor and back off some. How hard is it to understand the realities forced upon a small independent shop like CodeForce?


You seem to be aghast that I question Matrix's methods and - sin of all sins - suggest ways for them to improve! You'd have me burned at the stake for such heresy, wouldn't you?

But seriously - a developer's blog, a news thread uncluttered by 15 pages of user comments - is that TOO MUCH to ask of Matrix? Are you proposing that such a change to their website would require immense and time-consuming coding efforts? Are you SERIOUSLY proposing that these haven't been done thousands of times before by development companies around the world? Are you seriously taking the position that - as you say - it's HARD?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pdwest64
Do you honestly think everyone can support dozens to hundreds of programmers? Try to be a little less negative and focus on the good side of things.


I have already cast my vote of support with my wallet (actually, my Visa card) - and continue to do so with my posts in this forum. Your post count is currently 11. What does that say about YOUR support?

Seriously, your statements are are worded in the manner of gasoline tossed around in request for a flame war. Is that what you want?

edit:
Actually, I'm confused by "Do you honestly think everyone can support dozens to hundreds of programmers?" - who's "everyone"? You mean the dictionary definition, "every person; everybody"? Then I think the answer is obvious - yes, the 6 billion people on the Earth can indeed support the activities of a few dozen or indeed a few hundred programmers. The ratio isn't too hard for you to sort out, is it? You are capable of the math - right? Right?



J HG T -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/11/2011 9:45:02 AM)

*Jumps on a couch with ice-cold lemonade and liquirice candies, putting on Sennheisers, infilooping Slayer*

Don't mind me! I'm here just to watch the fight. Just think I'm not here at all.



MartialDoctor -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/11/2011 10:54:39 AM)

I actually think that Kayoz is bringing up some good points.  I don't think he should be criticized for that.

But, at the same time, Kayoz, no need to add fuel to the fire and turn this into a flame war.  It's starting to move in that direction.



Igard -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/11/2011 1:14:14 PM)

I'm not in the habit of enforcing my beliefs and personal feelings on others. If Kayoz is unhappy about something, then he has every right to voice his opinion. I've also stated in the past how I'd like to see more communication between the devs/publisher and us here on the forum.

I would like to see a little more positivity. One can always express themselves with restraint and still get their point across.

I think the reality is, the man doing the vast majority of the communicating, is Erik. He's not just a community rep, but that's just one of many hats he wears. If Matrix simply don't have the resources to set up and maintain a blog, or a running report of sorts, then that's the way it is.

There is nothing wrong with telling them that we would like more though.[:)]



pmelheck1 -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/11/2011 7:46:06 PM)

I have been overall very happy with Matrix.  It's always been my understanding that Matrix is a publisher and relies on its partners to develop programs including bug fixes (with some small exceptions).  I know that DW is done by a single person and I'm not sure if he has a full time job outside of DW.  If he does I can understand if he can't get to the program as often as he might like ( Lets not even talk about wife or girlfriend or children).  I've had a single issue with Matrix as a publisher which was minor.  I know folks can have issues with the programmer and I've seen Erik also very exasperated over some of the issues of updates not coming as fast as they can.  I know matrix provides what support it can to developers but it's up to the developer to post fixes.  It can be frustrating if your only used to dealing with the major publishers who do everything in house including development.  But I've seen levels of support from Matrix that I've not seen from any other publisher (cough...  cough...  WITP:AE..  cough... cough)

Some of the programs offered here are not so much cash cows but rather labors of love for their developers.  I for one like supporting the little guy in war games but their are large houses out their that I wont go into as I've had some very negative experiences with them some of them and my point here isn't to bash anyone, I haven't had bad experiences with all the major houses.  If you don't like small developers you can research and find out if a program is put out by a single person and just pass it over.




Erik Rutins -> RE: Hi! A few 'on the fence' questions. (7/11/2011 8:43:54 PM)

Hi Kayoz,

While I understand that you might have felt under attack, the most likely outcome of your reply to pdwest64 is going to accomplish is creating a flame war because of the escalation of tone. The best thing to do on the internet is think twice before posting and keep things civil and constructive.

I appreciate your feedback and I appreciate the support posted here as well.

I'll see what we can do to improve in those areas.

In the meantime, I'm locking up this thread.

Regards,

- Erik



Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
0.7304688