RE: Reviews and Impressions? (Full Version)

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Hanal -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/12/2011 5:07:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

In Panzer General, if a unit survived a battle it was automatically restored to full health with free elite replacements in order that its combat experience was not lost. Not so in Panzer Corps. On page 26 of the manual it states:

quote:

Note that in Panzer Corps losses are not replaced automatically between battles. This must be done manually. During the deployment phase green replacements are free, so you can always bring your core units to full strength, but they will lose some experience in the process. By giving your units Elite replacements you preserve their hard-earned experience but at the cost of prestige points.


This change has made the game less fun. It has added some unnecessary micromanagement to the game thereby increasing the time needed to prepare for the next battle. It reduces the amount of prestige points available to the player, thereby limiting his purchases of upgrades and units. I don't know whose idea it was to change one of the basic features of Panzer General, but I think it stinks. [sm=00000018.gif]


Well obviously everyone has a right to want the game to suit their personal tastes, so on that note, I think the current setup is great! Yes there is a little micromanaging to do but it forces you to either save or spend your prestige points before jumping into battle...you either purchase additional units, over strength units, or use elite replacements...having your units under-strengthed at the begining of each scenario helps reflect the attrition of war..... bottom line, I was not interested in buying a PG clone so the more changes, the better!



Erik Rutins -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/12/2011 5:17:47 PM)

From a post by the developer:

quote:

If you don't like this new rule so much, go to the game's installation folder, open Data/gamerules.pzdat file in Notepad and change the value of CamEReplaceCost parameter to 0. This will make elite replacements free between scenarios. Alas, you can't make them automatic in 1.0.

BTW, gamerules.pzdat file also contains some other rules I changed, so feel free to change them back to PG style if you want. ;)


Regards,

- Erik



JudgeDredd -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/12/2011 5:22:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

 
@ the Judge; " it NEVER crossed my mind to keep a unit with low strength back so it would get free elite replacements next turn! [:D] "

Really? It certainly was one of my fav tricks. Units down to 2 I kept way to the rear, get them replenished for free! :-) It's been a long time but I certainly do remember that one.


perhaps I was just unaware of the exploit [:'(]



dsawan -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/12/2011 6:06:14 PM)

One other thing. In PG 2, tanks could attack a second time depending on something. Cant remeber what it was. But they ahd an ability where they could attack twice. I think if they decimated the first unit completley they could attack a second time. This could be a feature worth adding. if so, i would limit this to certain tanks, not all, esp. pz 2 or 1. maybe 3 on up. same with Allies



gogol -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/12/2011 7:02:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

 
@ the Judge; " it NEVER crossed my mind to keep a unit with low strength back so it would get free elite replacements next turn! [:D] "

Really? It certainly was one of my fav tricks. Units down to 2 I kept way to the rear, get them replenished for free! :-) It's been a long time but I certainly do remember that one.


perhaps I was just unaware of the exploit [:'(]




This is not an exploit ! this is retreating, and it cost valuable time



Templer_12 -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/12/2011 7:51:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

2) It's very hard to tell which units are core and which are auxiliary units there only for one scenario. The only way I've figured out to do this is to click on the button that shows a vertical column of all units on the right side, then try to look there to see which unit is highlighted when I actually select a unit. Even this is difficult as first I have to select a unit to know if its core (can't see it on map) and there is a very dull glow that shows which unit on right is selected that is so hard to discern that I often have to select and de-select units repeatedly to try to pick out which unit in the right-hand unit list is "lighting" up (dully).

I agree here! +1


Request for:

One more zoom level and strategic map also activated with the mouse wheel.

Personally I think the music does not really succeeded. Well ...

Fantastic rebirth. [sm=happy0065.gif]
Iain and company: You have done your homework! Rule Britannia! [;)]

The last words the dying Panzer General a few years ago: "I'll be back!". [:D]



HansHafen -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/12/2011 8:04:39 PM)

Well, I never intentionally kept units back like that for that purpose. If I was out of prestige and couldn't heal them, then I would keep them safe.

However, you are in total control of what you do. If its a gamey trick that you don't like, then don't use it! :)

Hehehehe, funny, but you are the one using the trick. So you should be angry with yourself for using it, not the program for allowing it.

The beer didn't make you drunk, you made you drunk by drinking the beer!



IainMcNeil -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/12/2011 9:08:28 PM)

Alex needs to take the credit for this - it was his labour of love, Panzer General Forever, that was the foundation for Panzer Corps! It was only later that I and the Lordz got involved and we started Panzer Corps. It then had a complete reskinto make it the glorious thing it is today :) All in all the guys have done a superb job and we're very proud to be involved.



LarryP -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/12/2011 9:27:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

From a post by the developer:

quote:

If you don't like this new rule so much, go to the game's installation folder, open Data/gamerules.pzdat file in Notepad and change the value of CamEReplaceCost parameter to 0. This will make elite replacements free between scenarios. Alas, you can't make them automatic in 1.0.

BTW, gamerules.pzdat file also contains some other rules I changed, so feel free to change them back to PG style if you want. ;)


Regards,

- Erik



Changing this "CamEReplaceCost 0", won't this foul up multiplayer? [&:] Guess for multiplayer I would have to set it back to 50.



ezzler -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/12/2011 9:47:09 PM)

Bought it and loving it.
Thanks. Its a really, really good game.



Xacto -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/12/2011 11:16:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Krec

This game brings me back to where it all began................PG[:D]
quote:

This change has made the game less fun. It has added some unnecessary micromanagement to the game thereby increasing the time needed to prepare for the next battle. It reduces the amount of prestige points available to the player, thereby limiting his purchases of upgrades and units. I don't know whose idea it was to change one of the basic features of Panzer General, but I think it stinks.



Why not add a button in the game preference that would let you toggle this option on and off. This way everyone would be happy!.



Pandemic -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 12:07:55 AM)

Playing as difficulty Field Marshal in my campaign, I got:

Decisive in Poland
Minor in Norway
Decisive in Low Countries (last turn)
Minor in France (last turn so I was 1 turn away from losing)
Decisive in Balkans (last turn)
Decisive in Russia (last turn)
Decisive in Kiev (only one where I did this 6 turns early)

and am currrently On Moscow.

While I have lost only 2 core units I got some real shocks. France was really hard; I got so held up at the start. Russia first scenario was amazing; the AI counter attacked me with 7 or 8 aircraft and 5 tanks in my weak spot. I got really lucky and only lost 1 unit there; so so close to another 3.
I've had to spend a huge amount of resources on fighters - 7 out of my 28 units are fighters, and keeping them repaired is a fortune, I cant even think about upgrading them!
I am really struggling with prestige; I am 4 core unit slots spare with a number of my units not fully upgraded. I have only just been able to afford to elite top up (past 10) my fighters and artillery in my current scenario.
Because of the low prestige of my troops after Decisive in first Russia I didnt go for the early Moscow scenario; many of my troops were not even repaired and my prestige was 0.

Much, much harder than the original panzer general - which is awesome - the AI is a lot better on Field Marshal level than in old PG; for the first time I am having serious doubts that I will defeat Russia in 1941.

Remember the old PG where you could have all your tank units as 15 strength Tiger II's? No chance of this anymore


- and not a single bug that I have noticed so far or any crashes. Now thats well tested; just goes to show the wait for extra polish was worth it.



LarryP -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 12:37:29 AM)

When the delay went to July 11th, I thought "well, it's probably going to be worth the wait then." It sure has been worth the wait. The list of beta testers is awesome. I did not count them but it looks like over 200 maybe? However, beta testers do no good without the developer listening.



Adam Parker -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 2:15:58 AM)

Loving it, just loving it.

So faithful to the grand operational feel of the original - where in my opinion Panzer General 2 and 3D lost the plot in taking the action too far along the tactical scale.

"Panzer General" (the concept) in my view, has always been about the sweep of conquest within the abstract world of large organizationally-sized units (in fact, a soon to be released mounted-map boardgame called "No Retreat", will be taking an even greater scale to the Russian Front 1941-45... Armies, Fronts and Corps - proving that with the right design imagination, it can be fun). So we think imperially in the movement of forces, knowing that conquest means the attainment of geopolitically important objectives - cities and regional areas, counties and countries, not towns and bridges.

The art work is engrossing, the audio mission briefings fun (and entertaining as the German accent pronounces - or even mispronounces - certain words!).

The interface is just plain smooth with a nice ablilty to craft its physics to personal taste: Want to move and fight your forces by left or right clicking? - The game will do that for you. There's the control+click expanded combat predictor, so much being explained by the tutorials that I haven't yet viewed the rulebook other than a brief flick, made possible by the excellent decision to release it before retail launch.

The design choices to subtely expand the decision making options for the player will be a well received feature imo. Our world and gaming habits have changed since 1995! Yes - I still have a PC Authority magazine from that year heralding Panzer General 1 in a review!!

The key here, is subtelty... tweaking the original engine and concept to engross players without the burden of the decision making, say, of a Gary Grigsby title! There is a gaming world for those but Panzer General has never been within it.

The corollary of course, is not to go the other way - to dumb the game down ala "Operation Barbarossa" or "Commander Napoleon at War", both of which infuriated me at the money down the drain in lack of personal enjoyment (Op Barbarossa being one of the worst PC gaming experiences I've ever encountered, I'm sorry to say).

More to come on Panzer Corps - but just a quick note to say, well done Matrix and Slitherine for bringing the good ol' campaining and role play (the - I love my elite units ) feel back!

Happy gaming all,
Adam.



VPaulus -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 3:05:16 AM)

It's GOTY.



jwarrenw13 -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 3:53:17 AM)

It has been a long time since I bought a game one the first day.  I tried to resist this one but just read too many good things.  Still in the tutorial.  This is fun.  I like grognard things but I also like fun things like Battlefield Academy, and this looks like it could be a truly great game.



gogol -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 5:21:54 AM)

i don't thank you for this game !!
i slept 4 hours last night, and i'm about to sleep about 4 this one too.
i'm tired at work, my wife feels alone,tired of hearing me saying "just one more turn babe"

no, i don't thank you !!

Just keep on feeding it with other theaters (Rommel,Pacific etc), and you will
sure ruin my social life.

damn


"i can stop whenever i want, it's turn based ! just one more turn babe !"





Rudankort -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 7:02:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP
Changing this "CamEReplaceCost 0", won't this foul up multiplayer? [&:] Guess for multiplayer I would have to set it back to 50.


CamEReplaceCost means "campaign elite replace cost", and is used only between scenarios in a campaign. So it will not effect MP games.

But yes, if you create a new MP challenge, it is better to use all original files. Otherwise the game will mark your challenge as using custom/modified files, and other players may be reluctant to accept it.



Rudankort -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 7:14:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Xacto
Why not add a button in the game preference that would let you toggle this option on and off. This way everyone would be happy!.


I see at least two problems with this approach.
- There is no longer one standard gameplay. You post a message to the forum - "hey folks, I finished the game on Field Marshal". And you get responses - "What prestige setting did you use? Ah, you had free replacements between scenarios? That does not count."
- Most players won't know which option they want to choose, and it would only add more confusion. Such options are better avoided.

For this reason I did what I think was best. I chose one way which made most sense to me and made it standard. BTW, the campaign was also balanced with this new rule in mind, so I don't really understand the concerns of people. But for those few who cannot live with new rule there is an option to change it in configuration file.



IainMcNeil -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 7:37:23 AM)

There are over 800 beta testers in case anyone was wondering.



Jajusha -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 10:19:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rudankort


quote:

ORIGINAL: Xacto
Why not add a button in the game preference that would let you toggle this option on and off. This way everyone would be happy!.


I see at least two problems with this approach.
- There is no longer one standard gameplay. You post a message to the forum - "hey folks, I finished the game on Field Marshal". And you get responses - "What prestige setting did you use? Ah, you had free replacements between scenarios? That does not count."
- Most players won't know which option they want to choose, and it would only add more confusion. Such options are better avoided.

For this reason I did what I think was best. I chose one way which made most sense to me and made it standard. BTW, the campaign was also balanced with this new rule in mind, so I don't really understand the concerns of people. But for those few who cannot live with new rule there is an option to change it in configuration file.


I love this change. Anything that makes the game less "gamey" is good in my book.



ccsdc83 -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 12:34:55 PM)

I am having more fun playing online more than anything right now. I have two games going on and it's a joy when you login and my turn is (1) for me to play again [8D]
I just love the sounds as well the whole package is truly a masterpiece. I hope you guys sell a lot of copies this better wargame than anything out there right now and you even get a very intuitive editor that enables us to keep the shelf life going even farther.
Everyone should be out there advertising this on their favorite forums to get the word out if possible.



ParaB -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 12:42:24 PM)

The original PG was one of my all-time favourites, so I'm VERY happy about this remake.

I've played up to Barbarossa by now and am loving it! The change to the "free replacement" after battles doesn't bother me much, it actually causes me to use more prudent tactics instead of burning out my elite formations in a mad, last minute rushes.

There's only ONE thing I'm missing: a decent overview screen where I can check/watch all my units.

Can't wait to continue playing later this evening, thanks to all involved for this wonderful game.







Lord Zimoa -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 1:22:31 PM)

There's only ONE thing I'm missing: a decent overview screen where I can check/watch all my units.

>>> Toggle the unit info button, or do you mean a sort of extra army menu you would like to see?



LarryP -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 1:38:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

There are over 800 beta testers in case anyone was wondering.


WOW! That HAD to contribute to the stability and lack of bugs in this game. The list of beta testers is huge in the Credits dialog, but I never thought there were that many. I've beta tested some, but never on a team with more than maybe twenty? Amazing. However, that's 800+ gamers that won't be slapping their money down for the game. [;)]



Scott_WAR -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 2:34:11 PM)

The editor........WOW,....finally an editor in a game that is usable by a normal person.



ParaB -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 2:48:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lord Zimoa

>>> ... or do you mean a sort of extra army menu you would like to see?




This.




Lord Zimoa -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 3:30:59 PM)

That is already on our wishlist, an army management menu. :-)



blastpop -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 4:00:30 PM)

Having started this discussion I can happily report my happiness with Panzer Corps. [:D]

I played all the tutorials and found them not only instructive, but fun in their own right. I have just started the invasion of Poland and with the benefit of the tutorials and my feeling is that there is nothing in the game I can't accomplish. I strongly suggest everyone play through the tutorials. Not because the game is difficult- it isn't, but it gives you the tools you need to play the main game without frustrations of not knowing or even the "feel" of how the game works in many situations. It gives you the PzCorps game world and a lot of the tactics needed to proceed successfully in your campaigns. It takes 3-4 hours to savor them.

It seems to me that while this game is a lot of fun, it is also an experience to be savored...




Kriegsspieler -> RE: Reviews and Impressions? (7/13/2011 4:11:32 PM)

Well done, in almost evert respect. The elimination "free reinforcement" exploit is a welcome fix, and I appreciate the fact that building your army into a WWII equivalent of a Death Star is now much harder.

I do have one criticism, however. I would have hoped that the game would have some all new scenarios in there somewhere, perhaps a new variant story line to follow. Now perhaps there are such novelties, but I cannot say that i've ancountered any. From the first Polish campaign through to where I am now (1942), every single scenario feels exactly like what one encountered in Panzer General, even down to the initial placement of units. I'm not saying they ARE identical -- I can't really compare. But they feel nearly identical.

I'm not complaining -- much -- because no bold promises for new content were made before release, so I got what I expected. But what I hadn't really expected was how similar it ended up being. And without the N. Africa campaign it ends up havng less than Panzer General did. But who am I to complain? After havng spent years away from PG, this release has much the same addictive fun.

Might there be a hope for some new content somewhere in the future?



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