Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (Full Version)

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Gewehr43 -> Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (7/13/2011 6:07:04 AM)

Yup other massive wave of obsolete Soviet aircraft launching 20 or 30 attacks against Finnish airfields. I tried launching some myself the previous turn with completely intact, unused and unblemished Finnish air units and the computer simple said no bombers in range and refused to allow any kind of attacks. Any problem here? 10,000 Soviet AC down and they keep coming like Kamikazis.



cpt flam -> RE: Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (7/13/2011 6:11:42 AM)

you would try selecting a fighter base near border as staging base
normally it make work



Gewehr43 -> RE: Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (7/13/2011 6:19:07 AM)

Finns are just above the no attack line north of Leningrad. German planes are available but not one Finn shows up as an option to participate. Even when selecting the Finnish base as the staging base, it doesn't mater.



color -> RE: Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (7/13/2011 11:40:49 AM)

So what are you saying here - the finns never attacked any russian airbases south of some imaginary line ?

I can reason with a ground troop limit, but in the air, things seems a bit more dynamic.



Ketza -> RE: Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (7/13/2011 12:47:54 PM)

This is a pretty frustrating mechanic.



mmarquo -> RE: Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (7/13/2011 1:42:40 PM)

Are the Soviet air bases below the No Move line; just wondering?



Gewehr43 -> RE: Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (7/13/2011 2:30:02 PM)

Yup, south of Leningrad, within easy range.




Gewehr43 -> RE: Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (7/15/2011 11:17:34 AM)

Found this on page 171 of the manual "Finally, with the exception of ground support, Finnish air missions cannot be conducted on or south of the row Y15 until both Leningrad hexes are captured by the Axis player."

What is the thinking behind this? Seems unjustifiable. Soviets bomb the Finns' airfields and the Finns can't bomb them back.



Jakerson -> RE: Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (7/15/2011 1:21:50 PM)

Finnish Air force had not much bombing capability during WW2. Finland is small country that had no aviation industry of its own. Finland had no Ability to produce bomber planes what few planes Finland has were obsolete British bombers and bomber captured from Soviet Union.

Finland had no spare parts to operate bomber planes repair or maintenance them. This means that Finnish bomber planes could not fly. Finland did not have trained bomber crews either most of Finnish bombers spend their time only in training. Most of the bomber planes from those few witches could fly only fly recon or ground support missions.

Not until 1944 then Finnish bombers had some impact on progress of war when they bombed Soviet formations before that they did not affect course of war much.

Sending individual bomber planes that could fly on suicide mission for bombing Soviet airfields would have been suicide mission and suicide missions were against the Finnish mentality and tactics. As very small country Finnish army respected individual soldier’s lives more than big countries and nobody was required to do missions that had very small chance of success and high rate of getting killed.

This is reason why whatever small bomber resources Finland had were only used in training, recon and ground support.



Gewehr43 -> RE: Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (7/15/2011 11:15:16 PM)

Nope, not buying it. They have planes to be bombed on the ground by an enemy that just lost 10,000 planes and they don't have the option to counterattack? That's just nonsense. They simply should not be prohibited by the game from bombing Soviet airfields in August 1941 and yet be subjected to airfield attacks themselves. Following your logic, why bother to form an Air Force at all... If the casualties are too high then the Finns can decide for themselves that the results aren't worth it.



Peltonx -> RE: Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (7/16/2011 4:15:27 AM)

Its like the 1v1 = 2v1. Totally unhistorical, but they stick it into the game to help out the Russians.

No logic needed, just emotions I guess.

Still a great game other then the 1v1 = 2v1. Once you feel the bite of that you forget about a few fin air units.

Pelton



ETF -> RE: Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (7/21/2011 7:40:05 PM)

Could one not preserve the Finns Airforce by removing it to the rear or their national reserve (assuming the finns have one?).
I do agree thought the Soviets should not be able to bomb within the national borders of 41 Finland.



Erkki -> RE: Soviets bomb Finnish airfields but Finns can't return the favor? (8/3/2011 10:46:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

Finnish Air force had not much bombing capability during WW2. Finland is small country that had no aviation industry of its own. Finland had no Ability to produce bomber planes what few planes Finland has were obsolete British bombers and bomber captured from Soviet Union.

Finland had no spare parts to operate bomber planes repair or maintenance them. This means that Finnish bomber planes could not fly. Finland did not have trained bomber crews either most of Finnish bombers spend their time only in training. Most of the bomber planes from those few witches could fly only fly recon or ground support missions.

Not until 1944 then Finnish bombers had some impact on progress of war when they bombed Soviet formations before that they did not affect course of war much.

Sending individual bomber planes that could fly on suicide mission for bombing Soviet airfields would have been suicide mission and suicide missions were against the Finnish mentality and tactics. As very small country Finnish army respected individual soldier’s lives more than big countries and nobody was required to do missions that had very small chance of success and high rate of getting killed.

This is reason why whatever small bomber resources Finland had were only used in training, recon and ground support.



Simply not true. While the offensive air raids in 41-43 were rare, they were done, mainly against airfields and supply centers, especially in East Karelia. Bomber bases around Leningrad were attacked multiple times in 43 alone. The Leningrad strikes were AFAIK all night raids: the Soviets had no night interception capacity in the area. Offensive capacity of the bomber force was later increased when the 48 x Ju 88 A-4 bombers were bought from Germany, but they would see action mostly in ground support role in the Karelian Isthmus as well as reconnaissance aircraft both against the Soviets as well as the Germans.

Ironically, those offensive night raids were usually flown as counter strikes against the Soviet bombers attacking Helsinki area, Kotka, Mikkeli etc. The Soviet bombers were caught in the landing at least twice.

State Aircraft Factory, Valtion lentokonetehdas, produced as far as I know, at least 50 Blenheims and most of the trainers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valtion_lentokonetehdas

Night of the bombers: http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-NightOfTheBombers.html

Continuation War air war review by Olli Kivioja: http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-AirWarofContinuationWar.html

More related articles there: http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/



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